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War of the Worlds: The Human Side of Moore's Law (technology, culture, and education commentary)
PBS ^ | March 21, 2008 | Robert X. Cringely

Posted on 03/23/2008 6:51:28 AM PDT by FreedomPoster

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To: FreedomPoster
Theoretically, it shouldn't matter where or how you learn it.
21 posted on 03/23/2008 7:57:41 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: the invisib1e hand
allow me to refine this: it isn't that knowledge must be "imparted via the traditional education system."

My following point is appropos.

22 posted on 03/23/2008 7:59:43 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Free New York)
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To: ModelBreaker

The biggest problem I see with researching for information on a huge search engine is that the capability of limiting information is present. Demonstrate how commie Red China can limit internet browsing to their list of approved sites. The same can be done worldwide and there is much talk about how to limit content and information available even here in America. Of course, the reasons given are the noble “protecting the children” arguement.

Truth is, people have been manipulating history books for decades and now a whole generation has access to comparitive history beyond the brick and mortar school and it’s books. That scares educators because they can no longer control the ciriculum and it reduces their legitimacy and importance. Socialism cannot be taught if the children have access to contrasting content.


23 posted on 03/23/2008 8:03:57 AM PDT by o_zarkman44 (No Bull in 08!)
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To: the invisib1e hand
"Knowledge is power" is now become a threat, because what passes for knowledge is but a shell of it and can be created on the fly and delivered en masse to...anyone, regardless of motive.

First of all a threat to what? What, if it's based in Truth, needs defense?

It seems to me that certain things are self evident and if certain institutions are being overturned or seeing their foundations crumble then perhaps they weren't that closely based upon Truthful principles afterall.

You'd have some form of gatekeeping (censorship)in place to protect us from ourselves?

IMO it's already way too late to try putting the cork in the bottle. Look at Tibet the Chinese are trying to choke off information and yet somehow in this wired up world it seeps through the cracks like water carrying away what is meant to contain it.

24 posted on 03/23/2008 8:19:25 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: ninonitti
You'd have some form of gatekeeping (censorship)in place to protect us from ourselves?

Oh, the dreaded "c" word. I guess I'd better go get my asbestos suit....

***

OK, I'm back. Nobody said anything about putting a cork back in any bottle. Tibet and China? This is my point exactly! You frame your response according to the "hot story." That's what "hot media" does. Does that make it knowledge, or opinion, or some hybrid?

It's caveat emptor like never before. And when you can't trust that your mates are all on the same page, you can kiss real progress goodbye for a long, long time.

25 posted on 03/23/2008 8:23:54 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Free New York)
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To: ModelBreaker
Being able to search is founded on a knowledge base that tells you that you need to search, that a search of a particular sort may be useful, and the whether the result are meaningful.

Good point. One can be "educated" in that one can find lots of information about a particular thing, but real education is comprehensive and requires one to put things in context. A truly educated person wants to understand a topic and not just lazily "graze" for random or convenient details.

A student brought up on typical leftist propaganda might be vaguely aware that Japan and the U.S. were on opposite sides during WWII, and, looking for evidence of U.S. "war crimes," he might be able to find out a lot of information about Hiroshima. This will confirm his belief in alleged U.S. war crimes and he will stop his inquiry there. He will know nothing about the goals of the Japanese Empire. He will know nothing about Japanese atrocities in China and other places. If told of such atrocities, he will dismiss it as irrelevant to the matter of alleged U.S. war crimes. Furthermore, he will see the Hiroshima bombing as having nothing to do with other events of WWII, but then he may tie in Hiroshima with the war in Iraq. Someone might be able to search for facts but be willingly ignorant of the larger picture.

26 posted on 03/23/2008 8:35:41 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: FreedomPoster

Maybe I’m missing something here. The author states as fact that “K-12 educators are being pulled back by No Child Left Behind” without any context or exposition. Is this a generally accepted fact? Or is it so within the context of the article’s topic?


27 posted on 03/23/2008 8:43:25 AM PDT by CheneyClone
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To: the invisib1e hand

A saw from the home schoolers, is that if you want to simulate the public school experience in the home, take your kid to the bathroom, blow smoke in his face, swear at him, beat him up, and take his lunch money.

There are plenty of other ways to gain social experience than sitting in classrooms.


28 posted on 03/23/2008 8:44:24 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Typical White American)
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To: CheneyClone

It is to me. From my perspective, No Child Left Behind means No Child Gets Ahead, and is just one more step on the well-trodden path to schools geared for the least common denominator.


29 posted on 03/23/2008 8:48:15 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Typical White American)
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To: FreedomPoster
Andy Hertzfeld said Google is the best tool for an aging programmer because it remembers when we cannot. Dave Winer, back in 1996, came to the conclusion that it was better to bookmark information than to cut and paste it. I'm sure today Dave wouldn't bother with the bookmark and would simply search from scratch to get the most relevant result. Both men point to the idea that we're moving from a knowledge economy to a search economy, from a kingdom of static values to those that are dynamic. Education still seems to define knowing as more important than being able to find, yet which do you do more of in your work? And what's wrong with crimping a paragraph here or there from Cringely if it shows you understand the topic?

A delightful, wonderful paragraph! No time to go further on it though ...

30 posted on 03/23/2008 8:48:38 AM PDT by bvw
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To: FreedomPoster
Well reputation still holds in education, though its grip is weakening. I know kids from good families who left high school early with a GED because they were bored or wanted to enter college early. Maybe college is next.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My kids never went to school. My 3 entered community college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. All finished Calculus III by the age of 15, and all their college general courses.

My prediction:

Even the brink and mortar college can be dumped for much of the routine stuff ( and that includes Calculus III). There are on-line law schools now, and in my opinion even a lot of medical school could be done on-line.

Government school:

Government schools are NOT about educating children. They ARE about maintaining a government white-collar jobs program for collage grads with the lowest SAT and GRE scores on campus.

31 posted on 03/23/2008 9:04:49 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: metmom
This is an article of interest to homeschoolers.

The availability of excellent curriculum through technology is **definitely “Another Reason(s) to Homeschool!

32 posted on 03/23/2008 9:09:52 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Amelia; Gabz; Softballmom

Public Education Ping!

Those interested in Public Education would enjoy this thought provoking article.


33 posted on 03/23/2008 9:11:37 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: FreedomPoster

This guy is a savant and actually understands the dynamic of technology as a container of society. Media analyst Marshall McLuhan said 50 years ago that technology is assimilitated when it becomes invisible, part of the gestalt background rather than an object of the attention of learning. but I think sodiety’s learning curve is faster than 30 years. The death of TV and the birth of the computer as both entertainment and information center is a smooth transition, much like the advent of the remote control tuner was a smooth transition. Anything that increases the efficiency of extant technology is a smooth transition.

Yep, schools are dead. All we need is for governments to close their physical plant schools, issue every newborn a laptop and wifi, and unleash the battalions of game programmers to create the new game- “Grades 1- 16”. Burn your textbook digests, they are cartoon programming. The online Library of Alexandria has all the original source materials. For the first time in history any human can teach himself anything.


34 posted on 03/23/2008 9:12:24 AM PDT by Yollopoliuhqui
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To: wintertime

With medical and nursing, engineering, and the sciences, there are hands-on lab components that won’t work online. But, as you say, much of the curriculum could be online.


35 posted on 03/23/2008 9:25:19 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Typical White American)
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To: the invisib1e hand
OK, I'm back. Nobody said anything about putting a cork back in any bottle. Tibet and China? This is my point exactly! You frame your response according to the "hot story." That's what "hot media" does. Does that make it knowledge, or opinion, or some hybrid? It's caveat emptor like never before. And when you can't trust that your mates are all on the same page, you can kiss real progress goodbye for a long, long time.

I chose China/Tibet because I felt it illustrates the point about information/knowledge that it is flowing at a greater rate today than ever before. What is it really? just thought forms. Neither hot nor cold.

We can attempt to capture these forms in a body of knowledge say a book or school of thought but given the environment today it's often obsolete before it makes it to a shelf or university faculty.

I agree it's real slippery out on these rocks but as ObiWan told Luke "Trust the Force" when it comes to this blizzard of information. I believe we have enough intuitive sense to sort this stuff out individually and collectively. As I see it how you see progress gets down to whether the glass is half full or empty.

36 posted on 03/23/2008 9:25:51 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: Yollopoliuhqui

Yep, schools are dead.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The NEA and AFT just doesn’t know it yet! Neither do the government school defenders on this board.


37 posted on 03/23/2008 9:26:20 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: FreedomPoster

Fantastic article.

I told my kids they only needed to learn 3 things in school: Math, Reading, Research skills. They can teach themselves everything else they need from those 3 building blocks.

Math; learn as much as you possibly can.

Reading; as fast as possible, as much comprehension as possible.

Research skills; finding what you want to know, even when you don’t exactly know what you want to know. You might call it flexibility.

If you can do that, you have the world in the palm of your hand.


38 posted on 03/23/2008 9:28:12 AM PDT by live+let_live
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To: FreedomPoster

I can’t comment on the ISO aspects of the article - it’s outside my purview, however, every other aspect of the article is spot on. I’ve actually been considering the amazing shift that’s occurred in the last 20 years and how it is slowly leaving me behind. I’m a software developer and have been on a computer almost full time since I was 11 yet I feel out of touch now.


39 posted on 03/23/2008 9:33:42 AM PDT by TheZMan (I'm going to write my own name on the ballot. Screw the current crop of "conservatives".)
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To: FreedomPoster
The kids I know all complain about the traditional college text-book. They think it is a rip off. Most of these are $100 - $175 and are required for classes. Used books from the previous years classes are scarce. Where do they all go?

What's going on between the publishing industry and colleges? A CD/DVD format would be a lot less costly (and profitable).

40 posted on 03/23/2008 9:34:15 AM PDT by 386wt (Be free and don't die!)
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