Posted on 03/22/2008 12:45:52 PM PDT by Pharmboy
As a prominent evangelical pastor based in San Antonio, you were recently catapulted into national controversy when you endorsed Senator John McCain for president. Is it true that McCain actively sought your endorsement? It’s true that McCain’s campaign sought my endorsement.
How did you feel when critics called you a Catholic-basher and said McCain should reject your endorsement? My statements regarding the Catholic Church have been grossly mischaracterized. I never called the Catholic Church “the anti-Christ” or a “false cult system.” I was referring to those Christians who ignore the Gospels.
What about your observation in a recent book that “most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews”? What I was trying to express was the fact that Christian anti-Semitism — both Catholic and Protestant — contributed to an environment in which Nazi racial anti-Semitism could flourish.
But why bring all of that up now? ’Cause most of the world don’t know it. Christians don’t know it at all.
Two years ago, you founded Christians United for Israel , an influential lobbying group that has won accolades from many Jewish leaders. I’m trying to do something beneficial for the state of Israel and the Jewish people. It’s the right thing to do. If you take the Jewish contribution away from Christianity, there would be no Christianity.
That’s a touching sentiment, but some are concerned that the Zionism of American evangelicals stems from self-interest. Isn’t your involvement in Israel based on a desire to speed the second coming of Jesus? Our support of Israel has nothing to do with any kind of “end times” Bible scenario.
You’re not just sitting around waiting for the Rapture? No.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
“Our largest religions, Catholic and Southern Baptist among others categorize them as a non- Christian cult.”
Cults are not known for allowing people freedom to leave. This is not a problem for Mormons. One of the best Protestant Pastors that I know was raised Mormon. Is it Christian? Not in my opinion, but cult? I think not.
“That is why Christian churches require Mormons to be Baptized.”
Every Christian church that I have been to, and it’s been three over the last 5 years, requires ALL to be baptized, not just Mormons.
“Every Christian church that I have been to, and it’s been three over the last 5 years, requires ALL to be baptized, not just Mormons.”
Not twice. Los Angeles Times, July 20, 2001
>”The Roman Catholic Church declared Thursday that Mormon converts must be rebaptized, a setback to the Mormon Church’s effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.
The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are “not the baptism that Christ instituted.”
The ruling was a departure from the Catholic Church’s usual practice of recognizing the baptisms of converts from most other churches. The Vatican held that the Mormon view of the nature of God was too different from Catholicism’s.
It was the second time in as many years that a major Christian church had ruled that Mormon converts must be rebaptized. Last year, the United Methodist Church, the nation’s second-largest Protestant denomination, took a similar stand.”<
Check out this thread, a Scientology freeper is complaining because someone called Scientology a cult.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1990078/posts
>”The Roman Catholic Church declared Thursday that Mormon converts must be rebaptized, a setback to the Mormon Church’s effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.
And who made the Roman Catholic church the judge & jury? This is what I think people mean when they speak of the arrogance of that church.
There is not a doubt in my mind that that Scientology is either;
A) A possibly dangerous cult
or
B) A multi-billion dollar scam
or
C) Both
“And who made the Roman Catholic church the judge & jury? This is what I think people mean when they speak of the arrogance of that church.”
I used them as an example.
The other Christian churches deal with Mormonism the same, here are links to their statements on requiring Mormons to be be baptized Christian.
The Vatican, the Greek Orthodox, all the rest are in agreement on Mormonism.
http://www.catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp
Here is Southern baptist http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.3471385/k.6CD7/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm
Lutheran http://www.lcms.org/pages/print.asp?
NavID=12308&path=%2Fpages%2Frpage.asp&print=1
Assemblies of God http://pentecostalevangel.ag.org/Articles2002/4579_spencer.cfm
United Methodist http://archives.umc.org/umns/news_archive1999.asp?story=%7B3BE161B2-8603-4B32-A64F-0C9D2CBFAF85%7D&mid=3368
Presbyterians http://www.pcusa.org/interfaith/study/lds.htm
Here is the Greek Othodox position on mormonism as Christian.
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp
cults in America http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7075.asp
Thank you. Especially for the AG link, that is my particular flavor.
Sorry I jumped on ya a bit harshly earlier.
No problem, and since you are AG I clicked on their page and those last two paragraphs are very blunt, I sometimes like bluntness when it comes to God stuff.
>”In the final analysis, Mormonism is an original, invented religion, born of the mind of Joseph Smith, who is responsible for the spiritual seduction of millions of people. To the world, Mormonism sells itself as the friendly Christian church down the street, but in reality it is no closer to biblical Christianity than Hinduism or Islam.
The goals of Mormonism, however, remain unchanged. It desires to turn Protestants and Catholics, Evangelicals and Pentecostals, into Mormons. It seeks to introduce them to what the Bible calls another gospel, another spirit, and another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4).”<
Dude, Don’t post pictures of that ugly woman this late at night! I’ll have to have at least two more nightcaps, just to get that picture out of my mind.
We have a verbal eccentricity here that sounds perfectly normal and natural to my ear but outsiders have told me it makes them stop in their tracks and go Huh?
Can I go with?
And I have been wondering if this one is unique to here or do all Americans call a guy who takes pictures a
FUR-tographer.
Never heard of a “FUR-tographer” but there are people that live in my state that cannot even pronounce it properly.
They say “WaRshington” and there is NO “R” in the word!
In my vocabulary Warshington is pronounced moneypit.
I agree. I finally went to his "mega church" last year......and was quite surprised. I'd heard all types of gossip from "you can't shake his hand unless you give $1k donation"......and tripe such as that.
His church isn't as big as some Baptist churches I've been to (or Catholic for that matter) and found him quite personable. He had an open invitation to visitors after the service in a cozy reception room where they served punch and cookies. He asked each person where they were from and spoke to everyone for a few minutes each.
Never did I hear him preach anything out of line with the Word.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
>>And who made the Roman Catholic church the judge & jury? This is what I think people mean when they speak of the arrogance of that church<<
Holy Crap Dude are you nuts or just showing how much disdain you have for Catholics?
If someone wants to become Catholic (which is what a convert is doing) who do you think should make the rules?
Catholics make the rules for Catholics. If you want to become one, you follow the rules they make. Same for any religion or club for that matter.
And on Easter. Help me Lord.....
You didn't comprehend what I wrote. I'll post it again:
“That doesn’t negate the fact that there are plenty of biblically illiterate Christians in Mormon congregations, just like there are plenty of biblically illiterate Christians who sit in Hagee's congregation.”
Did you get it that time?
John Hagee - mimicing all anti-christs down through history, denies Christ's finished work on the cross. He says Jesus did not come to be the Messiah (ie: the expected King and deliverer of his people - their Savior) - VIDEO
And the biblical illiterates sitting in his congregation, many of them Christians, are totally unaware that they are listening to an anti-Christian message.
To see a Hagee follower accusing Mormons and Roman Catholics of not having the truth, is laughable in the extreme.
Compare Hagee (and his fellow-travelers) with the well-known, discredited heretic, Herbert W. Armstrong, and you will find very little variation in the underlying message.
deuteronlmy232:“Where and when did he say that?”
Matchett-PI: HERE
deuteronlmy232: "Nice truck. 300 gals, $1200. Whew."
Did you happen to see the VIDEO of that big tanker going over the cliff? Whew!
“Holy Crap Dude are you nuts or just showing how much disdain you have for Catholics?”
I do not have any more disdain for Catholics than I do for Mormons. I do however, hold much disdain for the arrogant.
As a point of clarification, the Catholic Church does not re-baptize ANYBODY.
In fact, in cases such as with the LDS group, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other groups, the baptism was not validly administered in the first place, so therefore, they were not, in the eyes of the Church, baptized in the first place.
This is not a matter of trying to disrespect one group or another, but is a matter of a theological difference.
The matter of baptism is water. There are “Christian” groups that do not believe that baptism in water is necessary (most of these groups believe that a “Holy Ghost” baptism renders a water baptism unnecessary).
The form of baptism is the Trinitarian formula given in Matt 28:19. There are some groups that do not baptize using that formula (baptizing “in the name of the Lord Jesus” or some such). There are other groups who do not share the Christian understanding of the Blessed Trinity, as stated in the Scriptures and clarified through the Ecumenical Councils, particularly Nicea I and Chalcedon. (particular examples come to mind are LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and United Pentacostals — but there are others, as well).
Catholic doctrine allows for the recognition of any valid baptism. However, if either the form or matter of a “baptism” were invalid, the baptism would be considered invalid (and therefore not having occurred).
Hopefully that clarifies the issue some.
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