Gun-toting is central part of American identity

Breitbart (Wire source is Agence France Presse) ^ | 3/16/08 | n/a

[kiriath_jearim]

Guns were an essential tool in frontier life when the United States was formed hundreds of years ago, and even today the right to carry them remains a fundamental part of the country's identity.

Hence the heated emotions surrounding an issue that comes before the Supreme Court this week -- how modern society should interpret gun rights that were written into the Second Amendment of the Constitution during a very different era.

The deadly impact of gun-toting criminals in recent years has made its way into the nation's conscience with a spate of gruesome mass shootings, particularly at schools and universities.

But the massacres, such as the nation's worst school rampage to date when a 23-year-old South Korean gunman at Virginia Tech University killed 32 people including himself last year, have largely failed to rouse any widespread movement against the right to bear arms.

Instead, the local press in Blacksburg, where the shootings occurred, focused on the opposite notion after the fact -- whether the killings could have been prevented or reduced if students or professors were allowed to carry guns in class.

America's love for guns "comes from the history and the geography of the nation, the fact that it was a very decentralized, sparsely populated frontier-dominated culture without a sense of a sovereign government," said William Vizzard, a professor of criminal justice at California State University.

The reason that even some liberal Americans will not take up the cause for abolition of guns is a relic of that older time, a "political cultural trend from the frontier society that was very self-reliant," Vizzard said.

When the first colonists arrived on what are now US shores, it was an every man -- or at least every group -- for himself mentality that ensured the strong survived and which fueled settlers' fights with Native Americans already on the land, the French arriving from Canada, and the Spanish moving up from Florida.

And once the United States gained its independence from Britain the founding fathers determined that an armed population was the best way to resist takeover by dictatorship or aristocracy, according to Eugene Volokh, law professor at University of California Los Angeles.

The United States' third president Thomas Jefferson, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence of 1776 and one of the main authors of the US Constitution of 1787, believed firmly in this principle.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own land," Jefferson wrote. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

And the Second Amendment to the Constitution, added in 1791, assures that: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

According to Justice Joseph Story, the "right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers," he wrote in an academic paper.

However, he noted that "among the American people there is a growing indifference to any sense of militia discipline," and questioned "how it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization."

Today, a large part of what pushes millions of Americans to join the powerful gun lobby the National Rifle Association (NRA) is a "you're not-gonna-tell-me-what-to-do reaction to government," accord to Vizzard, a former agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

In addition, sheer consumerism plays its role.

"Each culture develops its interest in something, and in the United States' consumerism, guns are just a part of that."

[William Tell]

robertpaulsen said: "The second amendment refers to an institution, a well regulated Militia, not simply people with guns."

And you are also willing to claim that "libraries" are an institution. Your claim is equivalent to mandating that only government can open or run a library. It's nonsense.

[robertpaulsen]

"Are you claiming that the same "20%" you have identified for the Second Amendment are the only people protected by the Fourth?"

Less than 20% of the population was protected by the second amendment in 1792. I don't know the percentage of the population protected by the 4th amendment. 30%, maybe?

"That a woman living in her own home alone in 1792 could suffer her home to be searched without a warrant?"

Of course. Unless the state constitution protected the right for women.

"You are claiming that the majority of our Founders intentionally failed to protect their own individual right to keep and bear arms."

By "failed to protect" I assume you mean failed to protect by the second amedment. Sure. If they weren't in a Militia, why did they need the second amendment to protect them?

Their right to keep and bear arms was protected by their state constitution.

[ArrogantBustard]

X: I realize that you're a certified range officer, and you have standards to uphold. So you have to do what you have to do.

But if any of us ever need to use our guns "for real", there won't be time to grab the safety glasses and stick the plugs in our ears.

Honest. BTDT.

So ... when folks pick up their weapons to shoot, they need to be thinking first and primarily about hitting the target (a concept which includes by definition not hitting other things).

Protecting our eyes and ears is very important, but of secondary importance. We shouldn't be so hung up over it as to be "paralyzed" if we forget. I was taught four "rules of gun safety". Eye and ear protection are conspicuous by their absence. I note for the record that my instructor(s) are, and I am, a big proponent of proper eye and ear protection.

All IMHO.

[William Tell]

robertpaulsen said: "Of course. Unless the state constitution protected the right for women."

Let's not mix in any incorporation issues.

Did the Fourth Amendment protect a woman living alone in 1792 from warrantless search by agents of the federal government?

[robertpaulsen]

"You have no justification for suggesting that a "poorly-regulated" Militia was not also a benificiary of the Second Amendment."

Other than the fact that the second amendment identfies, specifically, a "well regulated Militia", no.

So you're saying the Founders were just kidding when they wrote that? They really meant "any militia", and we're reading way too much into it by taking what they said literally? That "well regulated" was desired, not required?

I have every justification.

"The term "well-regulated" does not mean government controlled."

The term well regulated means trained, disciplined, armed and accoutered with officers appointed by the state. If you object to that definition, I'm interested in hearing yours.

"You persist in pretending that arms such as the cannon used to rescue Boston from occupation just magically appeard from some government warehouse somewhere."

My definition of "arms" in the second amendment is any weapon deemed necessary by each state to form a well regulated state Militia.

[stevio]

You don’t start small do you? It must be a Texas thang.

[stevio]

And typewriters are only for trained journalists.

[robertpaulsen]

And you are also willing to claim that "libraries" are an institution."

Correct. Analogous to a Militia.

"Your claim is equivalent to mandating that only government can open or run a library."

Mandating? No. Private individuals could open a library.

But my amendment only protects the right to keep and read books associated with those libraries organized, stocked, and run by the state.

[robertpaulsen]

"Did the Fourth Amendment protect a woman living alone in 1792 from warrantless search by agents of the federal government?"

No, it did not. This was confirmed by the DC Circuit Court in US v Heller.

[Uri’el-2012]

Protecting our eyes and ears is very important, but of secondary importance. We shouldn't be so hung up over it as to be "paralyzed" if we forget. I was taught four "rules of gun safety". Eye and ear protection are conspicuous by their absence. I note for the record that my instructor(s) are, and I am, a big proponent of proper eye and ear protection.

All IMHO.

123 posted on 03/17/2008 11:30:26 AM MDT by ArrogantBustard

You are absolutely correct. The most important are:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

followed by:

4. Know your target and what is beyond.

5. Be sure the gun is safe to operate.

6. Know how to use the gun safely.

7. Use only the correct ammunition for your gun.

6. Wear eye and ear protection.

7. NEVER use alcohol or drugs before or while shooting.

8. Store guns so they are NOT accessible to unauthorized persons.

9. Be aware that certain types of guns and many shooting activities require additional safety precautions.

This is from my NRA Certified Range Safety Officer training presentation.

[Uri’el-2012]

Pardon the numbering errors; this is from three slides.

[ArrogantBustard]

This is from memory (and originally from Jeff Cooper, IIRC):

1) All guns are always loaded.

2) Never let your muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

4) Know your target and what lies beyond it.

Simple, memorable and comprehensive.

[Uri’el-2012]

Simple, memorable and comprehensive.

And proven to be un-safe !

Col. Cooper is gone to to his rewards.

[William Tell]

robertpaulsen said: "But my amendment only protects the right to keep and read books associated with those libraries organized, stocked, and run by the state."

And people who choose to write books in the privacy of their own homes could be subject to arrest and conviction despite the assurance that "the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed".

Well-stocked libraries are going to do real well under your system of governance.

[William Tell]

robertpaulsen said: "No, it did not. This was confirmed by the DC Circuit Court in US v Heller."

Really?

Then there must be some very famous court case which has since established that a woman living alone is protected by the Fourth Amendment from warrantless search by federal agents. I wonder which case that was?

Tell me more about this limited scope of the Fourth Amendment.

[ArrogantBustard]

RIP Col. Cooper.

And proven to be un-safe !

Really? Proven? That would be a neat trick ...

Your list, OTOH, is demonstrated to be unlearnable.

If even you, a certified range officer and instructor, must resort to charts for any hope of getting them right ...

Meanwhile, we're getting off my point, which is to be more concerned with safe behaviour than with safety equipment.

When TSHTF, safety equipment may not be (and probably will not be) available.

You fight the way you train.

Yeah, the lady in picture #3 should have been wearing safety glasses ... but some folks get more upset about that sort of thing than I think they should.

[William Tell]

XeniaSt said: "{And proven to be un-safe !"

You will do a great disservice to new gun owners if you attempt to improve on the four rules of gun safety.

The goal is to prevent serious injury or death caused by a negligent discharge. The fact that there are other risks when firing a gun is irrelevant to the importance of having every beginner understand and follow the four rules.

I have introduced many people to guns. They don't touch a gun until they can recite these rules back to me and understand what they are for.

[William Tell]

I would NEVER use the list of rules you posted.

"Always treat every gun as if it was loaded" is one of the most important rules and your list doesn't have it.

One of your rules stresses the importance of not loading the gun until you are ready to use it. This implies a safety benefit from having the gun unloaded.

Presuming that one is safer because the gun is unloaded has caused many deaths.

[Uri’el-2012]

Really? Proven? That would be a neat trick ...

After it was statistically proved Cooper rules to be un-safe,
The NRA Training Department replaced his rules them with three rules
about twenty years ago which are easier to remember and have proven
to be be much safer.

They are :

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot

Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

[MileHi]

My definition of "arms" in the second amendment is any weapon deemed necessary by each state to form a well regulated state Militia.

At least that was an honest post. It IS your definition. There is no historical context to support that definition, just some modern day gun grabbing obfuscation and tortured historical revisionism. I will grant that you have a Masters degree in that however.