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Ron Paul on Eliot Spitzer: He acted badly but didn't deserve this
Politico ^ | 3/14/08 | Staff/Ron Paul

Posted on 03/15/2008 9:13:01 AM PDT by pissant

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), he of the quixotic GOP presidential campaign and unique policy positions, is never one to be shy about his opinions. Take the case of fallen New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer (D), whose political career fell apart this week after his liaisons with high-priced call girls became public. Spitzer resigned his office effective Monday.

Most politicians from both sides of the aisle publicly (at least) offered condolences for Spitzer and his poor family, including his three daughters, but didn't — of course — defend Spitzer's atrocious behavior.

But for Paul, Spitzer's downfall at the hands of a Justice Dept. investigation shows government at its worst. Yes, Spitzer climbed to power on the backs of political enemies he destroyed, making him not a swell guy, but he didn't deserve what happened to him. The FBI should have never been allowed to listen in to his phone call in the first place, according to the Texas Republican.

Here's the statement Paul made on the House floor last night. It's worth reading, at least for the enlightenment it gives into Paul's view of the world, which basically comes down to who controls the money:

"Madam Speaker, it has been said that 'he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.' And in the case of Eliot Spitzer, this couldn't be more true. In his case it's the political sword, as his enemies rejoice in his downfall. Most people, it seems, believe he got exactly what he deserved.

"The illegal tools of the state brought Spitzer down, but think of all the harm done by Spitzer in using the same tools against so many other innocent people. He practiced what could be termed 'economic McCarthyism,' using illegitimate government power to build his political career on the ruined lives of others.

"No matter how morally justified his comeuppance may be, his downfall demonstrates the worst of our society. The possibility of uncovering personal moral wrongdoing is never a justification for the government to spy on our every move and to participate in sting operations.

"For government to entice a citizen to break a law with a sting operation — that is, engaging in activities that a private citizen is prohibited by law from doing — is unconscionable and should clearly be illegal.

"Though Spitzer used the same tools to destroy individuals charged with economic crimes that ended up being used against him, gloating over his downfall should not divert our attention from the fact that the government spying on American citizens is unworthy of a country claiming respect for liberty and the Fourth Amendment.

"Two wrongs do not make a right. Two wrongs make it doubly wrong.

"Sacrifice of our personal privacy has been ongoing for decades but has rapidly accelerated since 9/11. Before 9/11, the unstated goal of collecting revenue was the real reason for the erosion of our financial privacy. When 19 suicidal maniacs attacked us on 9/11, our country became convinced that further sacrifice of personal and financial privacy was required for our security.

"The driving force behind this ongoing sacrifice of our privacy has been fear and the emotional effect of war rhetoric — war on drugs, war against terrorism and the war against Third World nations in the Middle East who are claimed to be the equivalent to Hitler and Nazi Germany.

"But the real reason for all this surveillance is to build the power of the state. It arises from a virulent dislike of free people running their own lives and spending their own money. Statists always demand control of the people and their money.

"Recently we've been told that this increase in the already intolerable invasion of our privacy was justified because the purpose was to apprehend terrorists. We were told that the massive amounts of information being collected on Americans would only be used to root out terrorists. But as we can see today, this monitoring of private activities can also be used for political reasons. We should always be concerned when the government accumulates information on innocent citizens.

"Spitzer was brought down because he legally withdrew cash from a bank — not because he committed a crime. This should prompt us to reassess and hopefully reverse this trend of pervasive government intrusion in our private lives.

"We need no more Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act! No more Violent Radicalization & Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Acts! No more torture! No more Military Commissions Act! No more secret prisons and extraordinary rendition! No more abuse of habeas corpus! No more Patriot Acts!

"What we need is more government transparency and more privacy for the individual!"


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Kentucky; US: New York; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 110th; chriskyle; eliotspitzer; kentucky; newyork; randsconcerntrolls; ronpaul; spitzer; texas
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To: EternalVigilance
Truth is a complete defense to any charge of libel or slander or any other form of defamation. Know Nothingism, Klan ideology and bordermania are quite related and that's the truth and therefore a complete defense.

The truth also hurts as you demonstrate by hurting in puboic over the lack of 3 AM knocks on Hispanic doors and other activities related to kidnapping people for being different. Dubya does not allow the kidnappings. Good for him. Who knows? Maybe the rest of the rule of law will someday be restored.

I will believe that the issue is borders rather than border bigotry when I see the usual gang of moonbats setting up on the Canadian border as well.

281 posted on 03/17/2008 2:41:21 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
Who knows? Maybe the rest of the rule of law will someday be restored.

Like the original (pre-FDR) Commerce Clause? Not if you can help it.

282 posted on 03/17/2008 2:48:47 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: EternalVigilance
If you voted in 2004, the probability is that she, I and thee all voted. So what????? If you are breathing, so am I and so, probably, is she. So what???? Etc. Ad infinitum.

If you keep your fussy little fingers away from McCain on this year's election day, you and Hillary and Obama and BaaahBaaah Boxer and Ted Kennedy will be doing the same thing.

But, hey, let's really get into issues. Was McCain at the Jekyll Island meetings??? Is he a Bilderburger (with or without ketchup, for lunch?)??? Is he in league with the Warburg banking interests or the Trilateral Commission or the Council on Foreign Relations (like about 98% of serious US business and political leadership including the late Bill Buckley)???? Was Bill Buckley a communist???? I knew him as a Catholic. When he was in his prime in the 1950s and 1960s, he would have crushed the emergent nutcases like bugs with a single column. Neither Ayn Rand nor the Birchers ever recovered from the mortal wounds inflicted by his pen.

283 posted on 03/17/2008 2:49:54 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
OK, all Hispanics are burglars and thieves. It was right there in the gospel of moonbattery. But YOU claim that those welcoming them are bigots???? Right, chief!

Please provide a link to where I said any such thing. You're really slipping if you think such transparently deceptive rhetoric is going to get you anywhere with me.

Roe vs. Wade and many other SCOTUS decisions have murdered the rule of law. Don't pretend otherwise.

You know better than that. I've never "pretended otherwise." But, what in the world does that have to do with the fact that the open-borders agenda destroys the rule of law?

Do you check the citizenship credentials of Hispanics seeking membership in your congregation???? We don't.

How broadminded of you. So, are we to infer that you would then favor the repeal of all laws asking for citizenship credentials anywhere and everywhere?

I realize that neither the Birchers nor the border moonbat groups are likely to analyze the leadership of such groups as FAIR but that doesn't excuse those who mouth their party line.

Pretty funny coming from someone who is obviously completely unwilling to "analyze" the "leadership" of the open borders crowd, or where their funding is coming from. You do realize that you're in an alliance with George Soros, the ACLU, the SPLC, La Raza, MeCHa, ANSWER, et al, right?

BTiW, that some pfoundation paid $110,000 to a consultant does not mean that the consultant did not have five other sources of equal or larger fees.

You're right. He was almost certainly taking money from other Leftists too.

Would it help the Mexicans more to keep them in the Yucatan at $5 per week per family or in the United States at $400 or $500 per week per employed family member??? I am inclined to think that the second alternative was better. That was Reagan's idea too and he was right.

Reagan's amnesty was supposed to be linked to enforcement, which never took place. It was touted as being for a million illegals. Three million ended up availing themselves of the largesse. Leading to an explosion of continued illegal immigration. No one seriously argues that this isn't what happened.

Where's the answer on WWAKD????

I never saw any such question. Which post was it in?

284 posted on 03/17/2008 2:52:52 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: BlackElk

Now you’re just blathering.


285 posted on 03/17/2008 2:53:43 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: tacticalogic
Then again, I live in the 21st Century and lived in the 20th. I think it is a little late to try to defeat FDR in an election or (for the devastated Paulistinian fringe nuts) in a war. He assumed room temperature a while ago.

That Commerce clause remains the same and was a nefarious purpose of the wealthier commercial Founding Fathers who thought it their birthright to keep frontier corn farmers from selling untaxed whiskey or transporting goods on the Mississippi through New Orleans with no profits at all to New York middlemen but had no problem interfering with "states' rights" to interfere with their commercial schemes.

Of course, you thought well of paleoPaulie so logic and tactics (whatever your screenname) are not your strong suit. Man the sailing ships and load the blunderbusses! Full speed ahead!

286 posted on 03/17/2008 2:57:15 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: EternalVigilance

Conservative movement activity: recruiting, educating (in von Mises, von Hayek, Frank Meyer, James Burnham and Ronaldus Maximus among many others) and politically training (in the nuts and bolts aspects or politics like ELECTING people rather than luxuriating in screaming harangues, unwarranted spoiled bratism on issues and getting a few % of the vote) conservatives non-stop as Young Americans for Freedom used to do. Whining about candidate imperfections and having nothing more viable to offer than Alan Keyes won’t get much accomplished.


287 posted on 03/17/2008 3:01:31 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: EternalVigilance

In the one right before the one with WWJD.


288 posted on 03/17/2008 3:02:29 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
"The question comes to this, whether a power, exclusively for the regulation of commerce, is a power for the regulation of manufactures? The statement of such a question would seem to involve its own answer. Can a power, granted for one purpose, be transferred to another? If it can, where is the limitation in the constitution? Are not commerce and manufactures as distinct, as commerce and agriculture? If they are, how can a power to regulate one arise from a power to regulate the other? It is true, that commerce and manufactures are, or may be, intimately connected with each other. A regulation of one may injuriously or beneficially affect the other. But that is not the point in controversy. It is, whether congress has a right to regulate that, which is not committed to it, under a power, which is committed to it, simply because there is, or may be an intimate connexion between the powers. If this were admitted, the enumeration of the powers of congress would be wholly unnecessary and nugatory. Agriculture, colonies, capital, machinery, the wages of labour, the profits of stock, the rents of land, the punctual performance of contracts, and the diffusion of knowledge would all be within the scope of the power; for all of them bear an intimate relation to commerce. The result would be, that the powers of congress would embrace the widest extent of legislative functions, to the utter demolition of all constitutional boundaries between the state and national governments. "

Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution 2:§§ 1073--91

Deny, and try to re-write history all you want. It's still there.

289 posted on 03/17/2008 3:03:06 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: BlackElk

Look where your “support-the-GOP-at-any-cost” position has led you. You’re slandering a man who has been selfless, courageous and consistent for decades in defense of conservative ideals, while supporting and providing political cover for a man who has sold conservatism and conservatives out at every turn.

It’s hard to imagine the depths to which John McCain will lead you in the days ahead.

Frankly, I pity you.


290 posted on 03/17/2008 3:06:45 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: BlackElk

Sorry, I’m not going to take the time to go back and read all your posts.

The question is silly anyway.


291 posted on 03/17/2008 3:07:50 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: All
McCain Cautions GOP On Immigration
292 posted on 03/17/2008 3:22:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: EternalVigilance
The proximity and poverty of Mexico relative to US standards are what lead to the explosion of immigration.

We have reached a point where I no longer care whether I am convincing you. It is not as though you are likely to be politically effective in any event. You used the rhetoric against the Hispanics of suggesting they are burglars and thieves in the first two sentences of your #272. I responded.

The rule of law that has been destroyed has, ummmm, been destroyed. We cannot very well assume some sort of secular infallibility of our courts after Roe vs. Wade, Griswold vs. Connecticut or about half of their work product.

No one has to fund Mexicans crossing the border in the middle of the night. They do that on their own. If the ACLU defends them, it is a better use of their resources than I would have predicted and means less money available for satanic mischief.

Reagan's amnesty would lead to border enforcement. Some folks just love lies and react accordingly. We are not going to become a fascist state with an Iron Curtain just to satisfy offended folks whose greatest claim to significance is a desire to keep Hispanics out of our country. The Hispanics are replacing the 50 million members of the aborted American community. Pro life is about action not about posing for holy pictures while refusing to act.

Not voting for McCain will put you in alliance with Ted the Driver, John the Traitor, Crusty the Pantsuit, Hussein Obama and Osama bin Laden.

As to credentials, as you probably recall, I belong to the Roman Catholic Church. Catholic with a small c means universal. Christ told our founders to go forth and teach and baptize all nations. We don't obsess over boundaries in qualifying fellow worshipers. Plenty of non-Americans qualify as Catholic. Many Americans, as is their right, do not. Alan Keyes is welcome to receive the Eucharist at any church I attend as is any American or non-American Catholic in good standing. Billy Graham, despite his considerable virtues, is not and he would not be insulted by that.

I am not welcome at many exclusive country clubs, polo clubs, yacht clubs. I am not insulted. It is the private property of those clubs. Our nation is not private property in that sense. We could always build a Berlin Wall or Rio Grande Wall and make complete fools of ourselves as a nation.

God did not draw that border with Mexico. I am quite in favor of American sovereignty over each and every state and territory. I will lose no sleep over the presence in my country of people coming here for a better life.

293 posted on 03/17/2008 3:26:15 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
Of course, you thought well of paleoPaulie so logic and tactics (whatever your screenname) are not your strong suit.

They're strong enough to keep me around, in the face of insipid trolls trying to goad me into saying something intemperate. You need to get over the idea that people disagreeing with you is simply a matter of insufficient insults.

294 posted on 03/17/2008 3:30:51 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: BlackElk
You used the rhetoric against the Hispanics of suggesting they are burglars and thieves in the first two sentences of your #272. I responded.

It's you who seems unable to distinguish between "Hispanics," a word only you have used until this sentence, and "illegal aliens."

295 posted on 03/17/2008 3:33:43 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: EternalVigilance
Slandering???? Does Alan Keyes yell, scream, harangue and holler his way through campaigns or not? I voted for him, had his bumper sticker on my car, and convinced others to do likewise but let us not distort reality to suggest that Alan is a competent candidate for public office. He is a good man but he is a lousy candidate and is incapable of attracting any but the committed in several Senate and POTUS campaigns.

McCain spent years in the Hanoi Hilton and urged the surge from the outset when that was a very lonely position. If that is selling out conservatism then get a blunderbuss, a copy of the Koran and letters of marque and reprisal along with a smartass parrot and a wooden leg and go to work for paleoPaulie. McCain just pisses some people off by not being a reflexive trained seal on every one of their issues. I don't like the fact that he helped open relations with communist VietNam but I will get over it. I shall not be responsible for a President Crusty the Pantsuit or a President Obama naming SCOTUS justices.

Pity yourself.

296 posted on 03/17/2008 3:59:50 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: EternalVigilance
When I see bordermanic good ol' boys roving the Canaduian border with shotguns and cases of beer in their pickups hunting Canadian "illegals", it will be easier to distinguish. Meanwhile, I think I know the difference between anti-Hispanic bigotry hiding behind immigration laws as an excuse for darker motives and sober upright and uptight "rule of law" worshipers. One bordermanic may be a bigot and another may merely buy the bigot KoolAid and quaff it by the gallon but that makes little difference to the Hispanics being physically attacked on the border by the self-appointed posing as law enforcement or, in a few cases, by out of control actual government border patrol officers.

It is no surprise that those who resist the immigration are a bit bashful about using the word Hispanic. It gives away the game. Better to make believe that a nation that has murdered 50 million innocents still has a "rule of law" and to use that rhetoric as an excuse for the inexcusable. In this context, "rule of law" is about as accurate as "pro-choice" is in the abortion debate.

297 posted on 03/17/2008 4:14:46 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: tacticalogic
Logic and tactics ARE your strong suit???? Gee, how many votes would the Al Qaeda answer man have gotten if it had been otherwise?????

Time to go to my Knights of Columbus meeting. Have fun.

298 posted on 03/17/2008 4:16:50 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
Better to make believe that a nation that has murdered 50 million innocents still has a "rule of law" and to use that rhetoric as an excuse for the inexcusable.

If you think John McCain will stop a single abortion, you're severely deluded.

He and his hacks are laughing behind your back.

Shoot, come to think of it, they're laughing right in your face. You're just too blind to see it.

299 posted on 03/17/2008 4:19:12 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (George Soros now owns two Parties, and their likely nominees...)
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To: BlackElk
Time to go to my Knights of Columbus meeting. Have fun.

Say hello to the papists for me.

300 posted on 03/17/2008 4:34:56 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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