They still have some bugs to work out:
Posted on 03/10/2008 8:49:33 AM PDT by dangerdoc
SAN DIEGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today, green high-tech venture VioletTM Fuel Cell SticksTM www.violetfuelcellsticks.com announces it has achieved an extremely high, 15KW/Liter cell density with their Solid Oxide Fuel Cell (SOFC) StickTM. Previous commercial fuel cells, including both SOFCs and PEMs, have struggled to meet a target of 2KW/Liter; and previous advanced concepts have struggled to achieve 4KW/Liter. The VioletTM StickTM has overcome the most significant hurdles facing fuel cells, and it resolves the technical limitations of existing technologies, such as sealing, cracking and manifolding problems, and poor volumetric density.
StickTM technology, created by VioletTM Fuel Cell SticksTM, offers a fundamental change to the physical structure of SOFCs that enables, for the first time, high density, low cost, mass produced solid state engines. The SOFC StickTM solves decades-old commercialization challenges for SOFC technology. The technology opens the door to mass production for numerous applications, such as: large-scale power generation, small-scale distributed power, auxiliary power units, mobile power generation, automotive, flight and advanced vehicle concepts.
“We believe that this is the highest density, scalable fuel cell in the world, and we are confident that we can quickly go much higher,” said co-founder Alan Devoe.
The development of the VioletTM StickTM is expected to have a significant impact on the US Fuel Cell market, which is estimated to be $1.1 billion US today and expected to grow to as much as $18.6 billion in 2013.
For a full description of the technology, visit www.violetfuelcellsticks.com.
Oh, so your generators deliver power to the wheels do they? Maybe that’s why you need a new generator so bad.
OK, thanks.... though it just takes us further away from getting any sense of how it compares, efficiency-wise, to a modern IC engine.
This is a bit confusing, because the "15 kW/liter" statement refers to the stack density, not the fuel efficiency. What this means is that a fuel cell powerful enough to run a car or truck would be quite small, while current fuel cells are quite large.
The fuel cell would still require a "gas" tank and an electric motor (or motors) to power the wheels, but the system should be 2-3 times more fuel efficient than internal combustion vehicles.
Of course, transformative technologies normally have obstacles to becoming practical, not the least of which is the likelihood of the technology not being real.
The efficiency comparison is kind of difficult.
While an IC is limited to Carnot cycle efficiency, a fuel cell is not. That means that an IC engine cannot possibly be more that ~30% efficient.
A fuel cell is >90% efficient. Electical resistance and electric motor losses would drop its efficiency to ~75% (SWAG).
Maybe I am dense.
What the heck are you talking about.
This may clarify things. The big locomotives you see have diesel generators, the train is driven by electric motors. Those locomotives have hundreds of millions of dollars of engineering to make them as efficient as humanly posible.
This will be about 25% more efficient.
Your catalytic converter is made of ceramics. The barrier to automotive applications has primarily been related to power density.
Ping to you.
Thanks! Pinging Uncle Dave!.........
About that “energy density/kw thing....
Yo do NOT need a “KW of storage” for every “KW of power” you produce in an automobile. As has been stated—any given IC engine is normally rated in PEAK, or “momentary” power output. IOW—a corvette MAY INDEED be able to produce 500 horsepower, for a FEW SECONDS..BUT—if you were to try and get that amount of power for ANY length of time, THREE things would happen: 1- you would destroy the engine in SHORT order, 2—you would burn through 20 gallons of gas in a few MINUTES and 3—you would be DEAD, as the car would be moving at above 200 MPH and most likely impaled into a tree or building somewhere.
So—auto engines are good for SHORT burst of power, for a short time and then, they typically produce maybe 15% of that power, for normal “driving”. Therefore—if a FC car had a 200HP motor, needing say, 150KW to run, it would NOT need a 150 KW fuel cell— a 30-40KW stack would suffice-so long as it could produce 150KW for a short time for acceleration.
Case in point.
The GM EV1 electric car, had a battery stack of less than 20KW and a motor of about 100KW. That stack was able to provide that motor with the FULL 100KW of power needed for normal needs, for about 75 miles or so. BUT—since that stack was a “storage” medium and NOT a “generation” medium, RANGE was SEVERLY limited—which ultimately put an end to GM’s electric car.
With a FC the “storage” is in the FUEL TANK—and so, driving range is only limited by the amount of FUEL one can carry—JUST like a “normal car”.
Properly done, a fully developed FC car would be as easy to refuel as a normal car—and probably the EXCAT SAME way!!
That is why I find this so exciting. SOFC works, there are multiple small stacks working now, the problem is that a 5 kW stack is the size of a refridgerator.
They are not announcing a technology that would allow 15 kW in one liter at some future time. They are predicting higher densities, but have 15 kW working now.
15 kW is enough to propel a car down the road at highway speed. With a battery to recapture braking energy and allow for large burst of power, you would not need much more power output unless you live in the mountains.
30 kW would be better and fit comfortably in a small engine compartment along with the electronics and a couple of kWh in lithium batteries.
A couple of 50 kW motors and a very light vehicle would make for a very nimble and fun car to drive.
bmflr
When Harley’s lineage goes
flathead panhead knucklehead shovelhead evo twincam THEN
Sparkee? Thunderhead? Buzzy? Electro?
Somehow, assuming the safety fascists allow personal transportation vehicles, the “harley davidson whirr” will not be the same feeling.
I don’t think you need to worry about your Harley. In fact the fact that SOFCs can burn gasoline tends to guarantee a fuel supply far into the future.
Assuming the technology comes to fruition, you can expect the following transition.
Semi and heavy trucks will be the first to move. The cost of equipment vs fuel cost is the smallest. Even modest gains in efficiency would save a lot of money.
Pickup trucks would be next, they burn alot of fuel per mile and have alot of space in the engine compartment to work with.
Commuter cars would be last.
Performance cars and motorcycles would unlikely see a change. There is a combination of space issues and lifestyle issues that will embrace the IC engine. After all, the IC engine has been around for more than a hundred years and people still ride horses. It is not because horses are the best transportation, it is because people like to ride horses. The same will hold true for IC engines.
Athough an electric super car would not sound great, the torque would be outstanding.
I think I agree with you...on the first part.
OK,
I guess were done here.
If you really needed a generator that runs on propane so bad, you could’ve and would’ve had one by now...just in ICE form.
The only reason ICE gen sets are lower efficiency is the waste heat that goes out the exhaust and the cooling system. There are devices that recover that heat. So your efficiency numbers are no good.
THere. Now we’re done here.
They still have some bugs to work out:
Yeah, another turd in a candy wrapper.
(the promise, not you) 8>)
I don’t think so. I’ve been following SOFC for about 5 years.
The science has gone from the bench to products that you can buy and are out in the field working.
Over the last few years, I started thinking that it would do well in the stationary market but they just weren’t having much success in getting the form factor small enough for mobile use.
I’ve had the benefit of seeing their white paper but they have solved almost all of the problems. They have solved seal problems, they have designed a built in counter current heat excanger which allow them to use inexpensive materials, the design allows automatic fabrication rather than hand building like most cells.
The most interesting thing is that the theoretical power density for tube and planar cells is lower than what these people have working now. Their design allows for a theoritical power density of 50 kW/liter. I doubt they will hit that mark for mass manufacture but there is a lot of room for improvement. Even at 15 kW/ liter is fine for current vehicles. 50 kW/liters would allow for a complete redesine of the auto. The entire powerplant could be tucked into a bumper.
If you want to talk about a turds...
The hydrogen economy.
Unrealistic CAFE standards.
Fuel made from food.
Carbon tax.
Kioto.
This is pretty cool.
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