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Report Advises Against New National Database of Ballistic Images
NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES ^ | March 05, 2008 | John E. Rolph et al.

Posted on 03/05/2008 9:44:39 PM PST by neverdem

A national database containing images of ballistic markings from all new and imported guns sold in the U.S. should not be created at this time, says a new report from the National Research Council. The report recommends improvements to an existing database of crime-related ballistic evidence and urges further research on "microstamping."

News Release

Opening Statement

Full Report (FReebie!)


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: ballisticimages; ballisticimaging; banglist; bigbrother; guncontrol; microstamping
Gun owners anxiously await decisions affecting their rights

Anti-Gunners Launching Full-Scale Attack in Connecticut!

CT wants registered sales of ammo with serial numbers and "microstamping" for semi-automatic handguns. Good timing!

1 posted on 03/05/2008 9:44:40 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

One major problem with ballistics imaging is that there is an enormous difference in the probative power of a ‘cold match’ versus a ‘hot match’. If one in 100,000 pistols will match a particular bullet, and a person who would be strongly suspected for other reasons has a matching firearm, the matching firearm is additional evidence. On the other hand, if the government doesn’t have any idea who did the crime, the fact that in a database of 150,000 ballistic images some random shmuck’s firearm happens to match the crime scene bullet shouldn’t be taken to mean much. Doesn’t mean the government won’t try to nail the poor shmuck anyway, though.


2 posted on 03/05/2008 9:51:43 PM PST by supercat
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To: neverdem

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=151274


3 posted on 03/05/2008 10:03:09 PM PST by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
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To: neverdem
Yippee! Microstamping!

File 'em off:
Photobucket

Take 'em with you:
Photobucket

Or pick up range brass:
Photobucket

4 posted on 03/05/2008 10:22:53 PM PST by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: supercat
One major problem with ballistics imaging is that there is an enormous difference in the probative power of a ‘cold match’ versus a ‘hot match’.

Another major problem is that there is no logical classification system for bullets or cases, as exists with fingerprints. And even fingerprints are a "black art" with lots of opportunities for experts to disagree.

Each fingerprint has to be identified as to hand, finger, type, and a number of check points. This is used to generate a long number, much like a soundex, that is then searchable. But a single finger print may produce thousands of hits for fingers that are "close enough" to get the same number.

You need more fingers (unless they have a suspect), so fingerprint techs try to get prints of all ten fingers. Even then, there may be several sets of prints in FBI files that have the same classification. Then it comes down to debating the results with other experts, or eliminating suspects.

There is none of this going for "ballistic images", because there is no natural grouping of unchanging characteristics. With a pristine bullet or case, you might narrow it down to make, model, and possibly year of manufacture. But there are still thousands of candidates, and everything else is a case-by-case slog.

"Ballistic identification" computer systems are just storage systems of photographs, because it's so darn hard to preserve the physical bullet or case. Fingerprints can be stored on cards, bullets need little boxes. A high-quality image makes it easier to store and share, but does nothing to solve the underlying problem.

It would make more sense to catalog snow flakes.

5 posted on 03/05/2008 10:47:02 PM PST by 300winmag (Life is hard! It is even harder when you are stupid!)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
The fact that this whole Orwellian scheme has been determined to be unworkable time and time again doesn't matter one bit; the career statists want it and want it now, the facts be damned.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

6 posted on 03/06/2008 5:36:03 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: supercat

>>Doesn’t mean the government won’t try to nail the poor shmuck anyway, though.

As anyone paying attention should have learned from the Duke lacrosse political prosecutions, to cite a recent example of that. Lack of real evidence doesn’t stop a politically motivated prosecutor.


7 posted on 03/06/2008 5:39:57 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: neverdem
Did you read the WHOLE opening statement? They ARE supporting "microstamping"!

We also urge further research on microstamping, a promising alternative to creating a national ballistic database that has been legislated in California and is pending in Congress. This technique places a unique identifier -- such as an alphanumeric code -- on gun parts or ammunition, and it would have the formidable advantage of imposing uniqueness on ballistic evidence. However, studies have not yet determined how durable microstamped marks are under various firing conditions, how susceptible they are to tampering, or what their cost would be for manufacturers and consumers. We strongly encourage research on these and other issues related to microstamping, as this method may indeed be a viable future approach to firearms investigation.

8 posted on 03/06/2008 5:54:16 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Cobra64

Is that one gal wearing sandals? Bad mojo in a place where falling brass might singe a toe...


9 posted on 03/06/2008 7:25:16 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Did you read the WHOLE opening statement? They ARE supporting "microstamping"!

They ARE only supporting "microstamping" research.

"We also urge further research on microstamping, a promising alternative to creating a national ballistic database that has been legislated in California and is pending in Congress. This technique places a unique identifier -- such as an alphanumeric code -- on gun parts or ammunition, and it would have the formidable advantage of imposing uniqueness on ballistic evidence. However, studies have not yet determined how durable microstamped marks are under various firing conditions, how susceptible they are to tampering, or what their cost would be for manufacturers and consumers. We strongly encourage research on these and other issues related to microstamping, as this method may indeed be a viable future approach to firearms investigation."

It's not ready for prime time for many of the same reasons that ballistic imaging never will be ready. A microstamp toolmark is subject to degradation as any toolmark, just for starters. Then there are wheelguns and tampering, not to mention the cost off the top of my head. I didn't have any coffee yet.

10 posted on 03/06/2008 8:22:15 AM PST by neverdem (I have to hope for a brokered GOP Convention. It can't get any worse.)
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To: Westlander

Thanks for the link.


11 posted on 03/06/2008 8:25:22 AM PST by neverdem (I have to hope for a brokered GOP Convention. It can't get any worse.)
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To: neverdem

It shouldn’t be created at all.


12 posted on 03/06/2008 8:31:23 AM PST by wastedyears (Iron Maiden in two weeks' time.)
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To: Dead Corpse

I’ve had some hot brass go down the back of my shirt once or twice.


13 posted on 03/06/2008 8:34:31 AM PST by wastedyears (Iron Maiden in two weeks' time.)
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To: wastedyears
Anyone who does a decent amount of shooting will eventually get tagged by a hot piece of brass. Especially if you are like me and shoot multiple types of firearms as in 3-gun practice or some of the other more active shooting sports.

I had a .223 case get stuck between my shooting glasses and my temple once. That was when I went out and bought a brass catcher for it.

14 posted on 03/06/2008 8:38:59 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Dead Corpse

I don’t even want to know what that felt like.


15 posted on 03/06/2008 9:12:50 AM PST by wastedyears (Iron Maiden in two weeks' time.)
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To: wastedyears

It got my attention. Luckily, I had the presence of mind to NOT wave the rifle around while trying to unstick the brass from the side of my head.


16 posted on 03/06/2008 9:14:32 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Dead Corpse

I have used the same model revolver for almost 40 years, a Model 36 S&W. Not once has it tried to burn me. Now my Benelli 12 guage, that is a horse of a different color. Tilt it the wrong way and it’ll eject a casing that will ricochet off the closest wall and come right back at ya.


17 posted on 03/06/2008 9:34:33 AM PST by B4Ranch ("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: B4Ranch
My S&W 19-3 is the same way. Completely refuses to spit hot brass at me. Even my .30-30 and my EAA 10mm have the common decency to eject their effluvia in a safe direction.

Not that rascally pair of AR's or that evil little Taurus 92AF. Their are just downright mean...

18 posted on 03/06/2008 10:14:04 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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