Posted on 02/29/2008 7:10:19 PM PST by Plane_Guy
Q Can I ask one quick clarification, Ms. Payton? I just want to be sure that I understood this correctly. It's fair to say that the possibility of this creating jobs in the United States was not a factor in your selection process; correct?
MS. PAYTON: That's correct.
(Excerpt) Read more at defenselink.mil ...
You are completely wrong. General Motor’s new contract allows new hires to be paid $14.00 per hour with no benefits. My husband works there as an engineer so I know this for a fact. I don’t know how long the Janesville plant will run in the coming weeks because an American part company is on strike. Yes the part for the Suburban are made in America. Before you start with the ‘see I told you it’s the unions’, line workers are fighting a 65% pay cut and loss of benefits. The reason the company wants this is because free trade is killing them. You may think this is a good thing, but I can tell you-this will lead to national health insurance and other social programs. The big bad union boogey man is trotted out to explain the absolute destruction of manufacturing in this country, but it is a lie...the competition works for a pittance or in some cases especially in China manufacturers use slave labor. These are the facts.
No one is safe from having their job eliminated and sent overseas or perhaps being fired and replaced with H visa workers. No one cares how well the job is done...cheap cheap cheap is all that matters. American markets are wide open while European, Japanese, Chinese and other markets remain closed to our products-all have some form of protectionism. Mexico-despite the NAFTA agreement is trying to keep American made cares out of Mexico as we speak. Trade is a one way street. Trade deficits indicate the street does not run through America.
For our government to outsource a military plane to the Europeans is a disgrace. Boeing could have built that plane. How dare they use tax payer money to in effect cause lay offs of American workers. If the Republicans continue to practice free trade as it is now-unfair to say the least, I don’t know how I can justify voting for them because this will usher in more and more socialism...as people lose their jobs. This program is short sighted and does not take into account the longterm effects on our country-none of which are for American workers.
Someday when the French refuse to give us parts because they don’t like are foreign policy, think back to this post. You are wrong...not much use making weapon abroad when in a pinch you couldn’t get part and/or replace the weapons-short sighted and stupid this deal. In my opinion, someone got paid off.
1) The 767 line obviously was still open. It was low risk, easily engineered, and viable to meet what was billed as the requested mission and performance parameters.
2) Otherwise, the 777, as large as the Airbus model, and as expensive would have been sent for consideration.
2) Instead the proposal and all the signals asked for the price and performance of the 767.
3) And —> EADS/Airbus/Europe signaled in 2007 that they could not meet the competitive pricing of Boeing and that they would likely not even bid.
http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2007/01/22/afx3348605.html
4) And what changed was a reward to Britain and France by Bush to build large components like the wings of the airframe and what changed was a reward to crony politicians.
5) So now taxpayers will foot the bill for Airbus to get guaranteed sales, to lower their capex requirements, to build a plant at getter synergy for not merely the military aspect but also the commercial line of freighter airframes. We just gave competitive advantage to a subsidized European company against Boeing.
6) Shelby got on cable news and said that Boeing presented an inferior product—a partisan politician trashed a US company for a net lose in jobs and for Airbus. The results of the bidding process calling Boeing “high risk” and missing the performance requirements was nonsense. Boeing had the 777 tanker. American engineering and manufacturing and logistics is the best in the world! So check your facts.
“the competition works for a pittance or in some cases”
Really? Then explain why non-union shops here in the U.S. have comparatively better pay than unionized shops?
Oh thats right, it’s because workers are not shelling out thousands of dollars per year in dues going to corrupt unions.
Funny that you mention Mexico trying to keep American made cars out, since their Federal Police and other local police,fire, EMS agencies still equip themselves with American made cars and trucks.
The 767 line was going to be shut down so they can start building the 787 Dreamliner. Boeing wanted the contract so they can make a few billion more dollars off a line that’s already been paid for.
The 777 wasn’t offered because Boeing is still making money off of the commercial sales of that aircraft.
The wings for the KC-45 are going to be made by Vought Aircraft Industries in Nashville and GKN Aerospace in Alabama.
Boeing DOES NOT have a 777 tanker beyond a few artists concept paintings, they are still making a profit off of it’s commercial sales and had no desire or excess production capability to even offer a tanker version.
A tanker would require a freighter version of the 777, which BTW is still on the drawing board.
Boeing can not even deliver the KC-767 tankers ordered by Japan and Italy on time especially to Italy because theirs are 2 years late.
http://www.leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn052907.pdf
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/80767/
It’s not funny; they are attempting it. Not that most Mexicans can afford cars anyway. NAFTA goes one way for sure. As for non-union shops. This is not true. Unless they work for Toyota (who has been matching the big three), they make crap money. I know several people who work in manufacturing -non-union. They don’t make good money and have to pay for their own benefits. Also, one of the companies is making noises about moving the plant overseas...even low American wages are higher than in China or India.
I’m sure Airbus will be much better...after all it’s made by the French. Anything made in America is just garbage after all (sarcasm).
I am so furious about this that I may not vote for any Repubs this year.
“They make crap money”
BS.
“I know several people who...blah blah blah”
Yeah right.
I’ve driven American, Japanese, and German cars, and I’ve seen first hand that American cars are garbage, followed by most of the Japanese manufacturers.
The big three are losing market share because they put out crap.
“I am so furious about this that I may not vote for any Repubs this year.”
You probably don’t vote Republican anyways.
So America makes only garbage...another self hating American-I guess. Actually, Toyota has the worst quality right now. GM makes some great cars...but you wouldn’t know that since you have written off your country in terms of business. I hope you are prepared for the results of free trade that will drive out American companies thus increasing all kinds of social ills and allowing socialism to at last take root in this country. American business by providing decent jobs single handedly stopped for a time. Many Democrats feel exactly as you do-for a different reason of course-they recognize that to implement their socialistic agenda, they must first destroy business.
By the way, I have voted straight ticket Repub for many years. I am a conservative and actually support fair trade. Other countries must stop closing markets to us if they want to continue to trade. America is the only market that is wide open.
It might interest you to know that the US is suing EADS in the WTO courts right now because they are subsidized by their government. So on the one hand they say Boeing can’t compete against EADS in terms of this contract, and on the other hand (law suit) they say EADS has an unfair advantage-quite typical free trade double talk.
You probably don’t believe a lawsuit exist, thus see below:
‘EADS is currently the subject of a lawsuit over claims it received $100 million in subsidies that allowed it to undercut its American rivals on large contracts.’
Do you think it is fair that foreign companies receive subsidies-including Japanese automakers while American business receives nothing but attacks and regulation? You have no sense of fair play.
The only thing driving American companies out are the UNIONS, but I don’t expect a union hack to understand that.
I am not a member of any union and my husband is an engineer at GM-manager-not union. Your response is typical of free traders who can not argue on the issues and turn to bashing the union in order to explain the loss of American jobs. Shall we enslave US workers like China? Should we pay US workers the equivalent of a bowl of rice? Perhaps we should relax our standards on pollution. China has no such laws. Tell me, when you have third world countries who have no standards in terms of wage or environment etc, how do you compete with them?
Americans were promised this-only low tech jobs are going overseas-not true. Many tech jobs have been outsourced to India. What few jobs are left, the government wants to import H Visa workers in order to fill the jobs American can’t do (sarcasm). On the other hand, we have illegals who are imported to fill the jobs Americans won’t do (sarcasm). Well, the day after a raid on a chicken processing plant shut it down as most of the work force was arrested as being illegal, 500 Americans showed up hoping for the chance for work. The whole system is unfair to American workers and in the long run has and will damage this country.
When you have union workers being paid $14.00 per hour with no benefits...your statement about unions is silly. Free trade as practiced today puts American companies at a serious disadvantage period. I think the lawsuit against EADS by the US government best illustrates the hypocrisies of US government on this issue. On the one hand they sue EADS because they are subsidized by their government (clearly violates WTO rules as do most foreign countries similar practices) but then go ahead and award a multi-billion contract to EADS-claiming they are the best choice. You can’t have it both ways.
Unfortunately, Democrats want to give our country away, while Republicans want to sell the country to the highest bidder...either way America is lost.
What lawsuit against EADS?
All you did was post a quote, and for all I know you pulled it out of thin air.
Funny, workers in non-union shops around here have the same or better wages than those who are union. The biggest difference is that the non-union workers have an incentive to actually work because if they fail to perform they get canned unlike a union shop where the union protects their fat lazy slacker membership.
There you go...this lawsuit is a fact. The US has accused that Airbus is subsidized by government...yet awarded a contract for our plane-this make no sense. I wouldn’t award a contract to a company that I was suing...claiming on one had that they had best bid and on other hand Boeing could not compete fairly because of government subsidies (lawsuit). Go figure.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/16/business/airbus.php
‘It also came amid reports from Geneva that a World Trade Organization panel was likely to delay until the summer a ruling on a U.S lawsuit that alleged Airbus had received billions of dollars in subsidized government loans for aircraft development in violation of global trade rules. A WTO verdict in the case - which has dragged on for more than two and a half years - had been expected in April.’
The only reason pay is competitive is that this was the going wage-not true anymore. As American companies (non-union) drop wages so will other Foreign companies. Non-unionized American companies already pay less.
Boeing has benefited from government grants and tax breaks just as Airbus did.
From YOUR article:
"Airbus lost $27 billion in revenue from 2004 to 2006 as a result of state tax breaks and outright government grants to Boeing. It also alleges that Washington has provided billions of dollars in indirect support to Boeing's commercial jet programs through contracts with the U.S. military and space programs."
Quit your whining already.
Boeing offered an inferior product based on an OBSOLETE airframe that neither had the range or load carrying capability that the Airforce was looking for. And Boeing can't even deliver the 8 KC767 tankers that were ordered on time.
BS
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