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To: Dog Gone; GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
Dog Gone you are 100% correct, my observations are dated as of JULY 1986. They continued to be confirmed until the end of the invasion in (IIRC) 1991, since my friends were stationed there or dropped in to visit friends acting as cadre. But I saw the conditions at Fort Sherman and Fort Clayton and the word ravaged springs to mind. Can't speak for the air force, though. What was the name of the USAF base down there? Was it Davis AFB? Or was that Fort Davis on the army side? My memory fails me. I didn't get to travel much since eating snakes was a large part of my daily activity. I do recall seeing the big japanese ships try and make it thru the locks and having the fit be so tight that scrapes of ships paint were left on the sides of the locks. Fact is that we WERE banned from riding the canal rails at that time. I was also given a briefing along with a bunch of other visiting officers at that time that the next place the where USA was going to have to militarily intervene was Panama. That was 1986 and it proved to be correct.

So I apologize for not specifically making certain that I was giving my personal observations from circa 1986. I have had some fairly regular input from folks stationed in the region as to the continuing veracity of my observations however most of that stopped around 1998 for one reason or another.

Obviously things have changed and for the better and that's great. Is it true that the Chinese control both ends of the canal both economically and militarily? How vital a passageway is the canal for our warships given that most of the true heavies are too big to get thru?

CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer, it's poor form to accuse folks of lying outright. My observations were true in 1986. I personally saw this. That things have obviously gotten better doesn't make me a liar. Anymore than being rude makes you a jerk. I'm sure you're really a nice person. Freepers usually are with few notable exceptions and I don't put you in that category without further documentation. Dog Gone, I've been knowing quite awhile and know him to be one of the good ones for sure.

531 posted on 02/28/2008 10:31:45 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier
Obviously things have changed and for the better and that's great. Is it true that the Chinese control both ends of the canal both economically and militarily?

Not militarily, for sure. A Hong Kong-based company manages the ports at both ends, and that sends shivers up the spine of many.

I don't see it as that big of a deal. They have a bunch of equipment to load and unload ships that are too big to go through the canal at present.

In fact, they're probably pissed off that Panama has decided to build a new lock system to accomodate larger ships.

That will lessen the need to unload those ships and send it by rail to the other side.

If you get a chance, you should return to see Panama today. It is spectacular and you don't have to eat snakes, unless you want to. There are 31 McDonald's restaurants in Panama City alone, and while that is not fine cuisine, it's not snake, either.

532 posted on 02/28/2008 10:41:56 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ExSoldier

Not having ever visited there until last year, I’m incapable of saying how things there have changed since you were there.

But the Panama City skyline is spectacular. I’m quite sure it has more highrise buildings than Houston, which has a considerably larger population.

Those manmade islands protecting the inlet into the canal on the Pacific side contain some pretty pricey real estate. Huge high-rise condos that you can easily spend a million dollars to purchase.

One thing that’s very interesting to see is the refurbishing of the old city that was built after the famed pirate, Henry Morgan, sacked the former site of the city. It’s like an old and funky european section, and many of the buildings are in very bad shape. But it’s being rapidly remodeled and turned into a trendy part of town. It’s pretty cool.


534 posted on 02/28/2008 10:57:26 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ExSoldier

“Is it true that the Chinese control both ends of the canal both economically and militarily?”

No. It’s another huge myth.

“But I saw the conditions at Fort Sherman and Fort Clayton and the word ravaged springs to mind.”

Ft Sherman always looked ravaged. It was in the boonies (jungle).

I was working at Ft. Clayton in 1986, and that statement is simply not correct. Whatever it looked like then, it looked like that before and after. It had nothing to do with the transition. Military installations always look and are depressing.


536 posted on 02/28/2008 11:01:04 AM PST by GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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