Posted on 02/27/2008 4:56:15 AM PST by E Rocc
he he. I got a kick out of that. I grew up here and admit I love Ohio and this part of it. Interestingly, one of my profs grew up in Southern California and he says he loves it here. When he goes home to visit, he says everyone asks him why he lives here and he tells them they are crazy!
Maybe you’ll be able to come home some day. Your description of the roads makes me think maybe our system of potholes isn’t so bad after all (sigh).
>>But, a charter school should not be permitted to be as stringent as a private school. Charter schools are public schools. The federal, state, and local governments forcibly take money from taxpayers to fund them. Lawsuits challenging charter school dress codes have resulted in students being readmitted. <<
No, here in MI and in most states, either the voters say they want charters or the legislators they elect write them into law. No one waves a magic wand and they appear, the NEA wouldn’t allow it. You can think that they forcibly take money from you but pitifully, we live in a republic and therefore the reps WE elect do things for us. We only get what we elect.
>>I can understand reasonable standards. But, if parents want stricter standards and to deny other taxpayers admission based on dress code, those parents should pay their own children’s tuition to a private school.<<
LOL! Because you say so right? Sorry, FRiend. Most people want the kind of education for their children that charters offer. Otherwise there wouldn’t be huge waiting lists for these schools. Last year MI had 3,000 kids on waiting lists for our 190 schools. If the states wouldn’t cap them, they would improve the district schools all the way around.
But if you don’t think it’s fair, well that just kind of tough because those parents who DO want them and are willing to move hell and high water to get their kids into one. And that includes signing a contract and living by the rules they set. Here in MI, our voucher program lost by 2%. Most people want the cap on charters lifted. And remember we are bucking the NEA and the nimrods that elected Kwame Kilpatrick. Without the “machine” we would slip to an easy majority.
This mom had problems with that. In some ways it makes me very happy. Some parent who wants his/her kid to get a quality education just got that spot. God Love them
You wrote: "...either the voters say they want charters or the legislators they elect write them into law. No one waves a magic wand and they appear,..."
I'm not sure what that response has to do with anything I wrote. OF COURSE, legislators write charter schools into law. We all know that.
LOL! Because you say so right? Sorry, FRiend.
The fact is, as I stated, students and their families have won lawsuits challenging dress codes at public schools, and charter schools are public schools. The recently popular uniform codes at public schools are being challenged in court, and dress codes at charter schools are under fire, too. For example, one student with long hair was readmitted (with his long hair) to his charter school after the ACLU filed a lawsuit.
we live in a republic and therefore the reps WE elect do things for us.
Yes, we live in a republic which was founded upon the idea that there should be "no taxation without representation." Because charter schools operate on our tax dollars, suspension and dismissal of students over dress codes will continue to be challenged in court because charter schools are taxpayer-funded public schools. Do you understand now?
Most people want the kind of education for their children that charters offer. Otherwise there wouldn’t be huge waiting lists for these schools.
ROFL! Desperate parents even willing to enter lotteries for a chance at schools that have proven to provide no better of an education than other public schools.
There are standard public schools that provide a high quality education, and there are charter schools that do not provide a good education. Though I would like to see all public schools become charter schools (i.e. the state contracts with a private company) for the sake of lowering our tax burden, I'd still consider them as the last resort.
Thanks. I think I found it. This thread is from last year, but it looks like the story you were talking about: Local 7th Grader Suspended Because His Hair Was Too Short
I'm glad to see everyone on FR was on his side. The "fade" is the haircut of choice for the father and sons in this household: It's a nice, neat, and easy style.
Personally I think its a bunch of crap. Is he getting his work done or not?
I’m going to say it one more time.
Contract + parent signed + law of contracts = Parent in this situation has no leg to stand on.
ACLU or Tired of Taxes not withstanding....
And I will say it again and again:
Charter schools = public schools. They cannot do everything a private school is allowed to do, whatever netmilsmom may think. :-P
(They might get away with things for a time until the courts step in.)
Contracts not withstanding of course.
Sounds like the same haircut our sons get, like you said, sandpaper on the sides and back. :-) I tell the barber "close on the sides, alittle darker on top."
The 6yo boy with the mohawk is pictured in post #31. I wonder how far the school would want the top clipped down, or if it restricts hair that is "too short."
And thinking like yours and this parents are why my child will NEVER EVER see the inside of a public school as a student. School is about education, not self expression.
My child’s school dress code is quite clear, not only on clothing, but hair, makeup, earings, etc etc etc... you feel your child needs to have a mowhawk.. have fun somewhere else.
Public schools are to education what public housing is to housing.
That depends on if they are being taught what to think or how to think.
-Eric
You’re really hooked on that word “contract”, I see. :-)
A CONTRACT is what the state has with the private company running the charter school. Both parties bring something to the table: The state promises payment, and the private company promises to educate students. If either party does not deliver on its promise, the contract becomes void, and the other party is not held to it anymore. For example, if the charter school stopped educating the students, the state could stop payment. Or, if the state stopped payment, the charter school could stop educating students.
Parents of students in any school that is publicly funded are forced to continue supporting the school via taxes. That’s why these cases of dress code in charter schools are being challenged in court as “freedom of expression” cases, and the parents possibly could win.
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree here. You’re pro-charter schools/pro-voucher, and I’m pro-separation school and state. Apparently, homeschoolers can have a difference in opinion, too.
Exactly, and being taught HOW to think has nothing to do with haircuts or vulgar t-shirts, or brands of pants.
School is for teaching, and schools with dress codes and uniforms vastly outperform on average those that do not.
My child’s school outperforms by leaps and bounds annually the public school down the street, does so on a 1/10th of the budget and doesn’t have metal detectors at the doors. If a parent thinks their child’s right to have a goofy haircut is tantamount, as opposed to say, actually learning how to think and discern then they can send them to lesser schools, where they can have the bumper from a 53 buick hanging out of their nose to express themselves, and graduate unable to think.
That's because they are for the most part private schools that get to pick and choose. As I commented earlier, schools in the 70s had less of what I call "surface" discipline, yet managed to teach individual personal responsibility. Bringing that back is the key, not uniforms or other forms of petty regimentation that bring about the kind of groupthink that facilitates liberalism.
Your focus on surface rather than depth reminds me of the attitudes of IBM before they got their blue-suited posteriors waxed by the jeans and t-shirt cultures of Microsoft, Dell, Gateway, et al.
-Eric
>>A CONTRACT is what the state has with the private company running the charter school<<
Yup. And a contract is what the parents sign and it is binding. A parent would not win after they have signed that contract. Even if the clause was pronounced “stupid”.
You may think that a parent would win in court against this but I’ve seen otherwise in the MI charter schools.
That’s right, private schools do get to pick and choose, is some leftist activist wants to bring their kid in there and try to cause a federal case by intentionally sending them to school in some T-shirt that assaults the sensibilities of most folks, that kid and their parents are sent packing as they should be... back down the road to the public school system that is to education what public housing is to housing.
I am glad they get to pick and choose, because I do not want my childs education being compromised by such idiocy! Any parent that subjects their children willfully to the public school system today, that has the means to provide for their education otherwise, is frankly guilty of neglect and abuse.
Public Schools are neccessary, and guaranteeing an education to all citizens is a good thing, but public schools will ALWAYS be the bottom of the barrel and its the very nature that they cannot get rid of issues like problem students and parents that are at the heart of it.
There is a reason most public school teachers I know send their kids to private schools, just as most politicians do too.. Its not a coincidence.
Groupthink? Are you kidding me. The bastion of liberal thought is in the public school systems and their tolerate anything at any cost for fear of making some kids self esteem hurt.
Schools in the 70s underperformed their private school counterparts, believe me I attended school in the 70s, both public and private, and the difference just as today was night and day.
Group Think is the hallmark of the public education system... indoctrination... granting superficial “individualization” while filling the mind with group think propoganda.
You seem to be implying that uniforms encourage liberalism, when its unfettered tolerance of everything that is the hallmark of liberalism. The thing about individualism and rights that most leftist fail to understand is that while you may have a right to do whatever you feel, the rest of the world is under no obligation to accept you for it, agree with you for it, or condone you for it. You are free to exercise your right, and everyone else is free to tell you get bent.
I find it beyond amazing you are actually trying to argue that public schools are bastions of conservatism, and private schools that are proven throughout time to produce better students and achievers on average than their public school counterparts are the ones that are steeped in liberalism.
When a child or a childs parent thinks that their child’s right to disrupt the education of dozens of others supersedes everyone elses right to get a decent education that is not conservative thought or ideology driving such nonsense.
I guess you never heard of the cases involving Old Redford Academy, a charter school in MI.
I just want to point out that the school in this story is a charter school, which is a publicly funded school. It’s a public school.
I went to private/Catholic schools through ninth grade. We wore uniforms everyday; the boys had to keep their hair cut above their collars; we girls had to keep our uniform dresses a certain length. Drugs, alcohol, and sex permeated those Catholic schools, too. As private schools, they were able to expel students with bad conduct, but most students got away with bad behavior. To an outsider, though, the schools had a nice image because the students were dressed in uniforms. But it was all an illusion. Uniforms alone don’t make good kids.
Some people call it a Ranger cut. Which hubby and son have *worn* since hubby left the Rangers.
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