Posted on 02/25/2008 8:38:35 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
A battle is brewing between the Honolulu Police Department and the Hawaii Rifle Association over a proposed ban of a high-powered sniper rifle.
KITV's Catherine Cruz reported that the 50-caliber rifle is dubbed the most powerful rifle on the market today, and the HPD said it is their worst nightmare. That is why they said they want it out of civilian hands.
It's a weapon that's long been used by the military and law enforcement, but in most states, a person can buy it over the Internet or from a gun store, which is making law enforcement uneasy.
"There is nothing we have that can withstand this. If you look at an armored car, those things have a half-inch of steel. These can go through 1 inch of steel at a thousand yards," HPD Major Gregory Lefcourt said.
The rifle can fire 10 rounds in 10 seconds, and the bullets can travel for miles, police officials said.
They said that a shot fired from the rooftop at police headquarters could precisely hit a target at the state Capitol, four-tenths of a mile away.
The National Guard calls the weapon a threat to homeland security.
"It does concern us -- shooting down airplanes four miles distances," Hawaii National Guard Gen.Gary Ishikawa said.
The National Rifle Association said that a ban would infringe on the right to bear arms. It argued that the weapon hasn't ever been used in a crime in the islands.
"We haven't had any incidents of robbers at banks or terrorist shooting airplanes -- it just doesn't happen," HRA member Mark Plischke said.
But police said they don't want to wait until then.
They said the proposed ban will die in the judiciary committee if they don't get enough public support for the bill.
The rifles are outlawed for civilian use in California, New Jersey and New York.
The HRA maintained that their members use it for hunting or eradicating goats. Others users of the rifle said they enter long range firing competitions
The rifle is so powerful that it has been banned from the Kokohead Firing Range, range officials said. The rifle is only allowed at military ranges, which are off limits to civilians.
It is also very expensive. One rifle will fetch about $8,000, officials said.
There are 125 registered owners of the high-powered rifle in the state, with 90 owners living on Oahu.
Join the club. LOL
I’m in good company then.
Well, I’m off for the night. I’m going to do some reading, and turn in. Catch you on the flip side. Have a good night, and God Bless.
That figure is the amount of rounds fired at planes, from the ground.
It takes a big man to back down gracefully the way you did.
Good on ya!
I'm not asking because I disagree, but I'm truly curious and ignorant about this; what happens if a bullet penetrates a jet's fuel tank?
OBAMA?
New Orleans chief of police and new orleans mayor, Ray Nagin
M2 - Not all are US made some are FN ex-Israeli army, but who knows? Like I said my guestimates are not a scientific study, just going by the numbers and fraction of M2s seen locally.
Hey, your initial remarks turned this into a long and interesting thread. I had some fun
But does that figure only count rounds expended by fighter planes, or does it include ship and ground gunners trying to fill up the sky with lead to shoot down planes. It took a lot of anti-aircraft fire to take down a plane in WW2. It was a case of little planes in a big volume of sky
(sarc)Hey! I know! Let's write op eds, maybe get a couple of friends to wave some signs, maybe not vote for the incumbent next election... That'll put the fear back into 'em. Right?(/sarc)
They lie. Sure you can buy it over the Internet, but you still must have it shipped to a local licensed federal firearms dealers. That dealer will then obtain whatever unconstitutional permission is required, at minimum the federal instant background check. Then, and only then, can you get the rifle. Legally that is. Criminals and terrorists are unlikely to risk the check, because unlike law abiding citizens, they DO have something to hide.
You sure you have that tagline interpreted right?
.4 miles is 700 yards. You can do that with a 30-06 and a decent scope. Never mind some more energetic, but still common, hunting rounds, even just one step up to .300 Winchester Magnum will leave plenty of energy at 700 yards.
The National Guard calls the weapon a threat to homeland security.
"It does concern us -- shooting down airplanes four miles distances," Hawaii National Guard Gen.Gary Ishikawa said.
Brig. Gen. Isikawa is a political appointee. As the Deputy AG, he'll want to be AG some day. While the current governor is a B rated Republican, she's term limited out in 2010, and is only the second Republican (the first was the first governor in 1962) to hold the office. Chances are she'll be replaced by a typical gun grabbing Democrat, and he wouldn't want to hurt his prospects for moving up to the top job.
Also, he's an idiot if he thinks you can shoot down a moving airplane with a one shot per trigger pull (and some are one shot, period!) semi-auto or bolt action rifle from 4 miles away. It's hard enough with Ma Duece. Even fighter plane used 4 to 6 fully auto .50 calibers, and they didn't engage from 4, not even bomber sized aircraft.
Then there is the small matter of his oath to support and defend the Constitutions of the United States and of the State of Hawaii. The latter reads, just like the federal second amendment:
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Article 1, Section 15.
Please share. The local fire dept just fills theirs at the local dive shops. Max for their compressors is 3200 psi.
Thanks in advance.
Generally not just one, unless it was "golden BB" that got the pilot or something really critical, like the fuel pump on a single engine aircraft. And I'd wager none of them were from 4 miles away, nor was the one bullet the only one fired. Probably hundreds were fired at aircraft for each one that hit an aircraft. A few hundred yards, maybe 1/2 mile, would be a much more common range. Oh, and they used incendiary and tracer ammunition. The tracers served two purposes, the main one being to allow "walking" the bullet stream onto the target, since they allowed you to see where the bullets were going, and a secondary purpose to ignite any fuel that might be around as a result of other hits.
The Japanese and Germans both thought the .50 as too puny for the job, and armed their aircraft with cannon, which fire explosive projectiles, albeit usually at a lower rate.
I was going to suggest you get to know your local fire chief. Make it clear that you want the air for other than diving.
Especially considering that the longest successfull effort by a military sniper in the real world was only about 1.5 miles, 2430 kilometers, by Canadian Cpl. Rob Furlong, and it took three shots at a stationary target to get the job done. One clean miss, one hit the guy's knapsack, the third gutted him like a trout.
That shot beat the 2,250 m previous record shot by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock during our second place effort in the Southeast Asian War games.
Of course those were on man sized targets. Hitting a stationary aircraft at 4 miles *might* be possible, but you'd end up with an airplane with a half inch hole, one each. Of course if it was stationary, you could shoot again. Hitting something vital, say the engine core, would be, well, hit or miss.
Always happy to entertain. ;0}
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