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To: John Leland 1789
let's look at your points 1 by 1:

You say Peter was not a minister to the Gentiles, but to the Jews -- do you discount the fact that there were Jews in Rome and indeed throughout the Roman Empire?

Since the Bible trumps the histories of man, we may easily conclude that the documents you cite underwent some serious tampering through the years in favor of your religious system.

Really? And the Bible comes to your little cult/group/sub-sect through The Church, so you mean to say that you think the Bible underwent tampering??
248 posted on 02/20/2008 10:58:04 AM PST by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: Cronos
“You say Peter was not a minister to the Gentiles, but to the Jews — do you discount the fact that there were Jews in Rome and indeed throughout the Roman Empire?”

Correct, we know that there were Jews in Rome, as well as throughout the Empire. But Peter being a minister to them with a gospel specifically to them would preclude him being the head of a predominantly Gentile church. A great difference is made between the ministry to the circumcision and the ministry to the uncircumcision when the agreement of Galatians chapter 2 was made.

If either Peter or Paul were to be the bishop of Rome, it would have been, therefore, Paul, by the very description of their distinct ministries. But neither one was ever a “bishop of Rome.”

The New Testament that the WCC (RCC) uses, or rather the text-type, came about through Alexandria, Egypt (Origen), and then through Rome when Constantine ordered 50 copies from Alexandria, and Eusebius complied with the order. It was certainly corrupted by Origen and others in Alexandria, and by the Latin scholars of the WCC (RCC) like Jerome, and others. It is (in the Greek NT) the Minority Text (also called the Western Text), representing a minority of the MSS.

Of course, you would claim that YOUR church was the only proper channel for giving the world the Bible. It is just as you would claim that YOUR priests are the only ones authorized to baptize or offer the Lord’s Supper (which you all describe by other unnecessary and unbiblical terms). Just as YOUR church is, in your minds, the only channel of salvation.

We claim nothing of the sort for any of our churches. We don’t believe that salvation is in or through ours or ANY earthly organized church, or though any sacrament of any church, but through Jesus Christ alone. We don’t believe any person must be affiliated with us in any way to be saved or have the blessings of God including eternal life. We don’t believe our pastors/bishops are priests. We are not the ones who believe that a sinner can absolve the sins of another sinner. We don’t believe our baptism is exclusively valid and effectual. In fact, we don’t believe there is any salvation in water to begin with.

You like to throw around the word “cult,” and we understand it, because according to your doctrine, anything outside of the authority of your system qualifies, in your minds, as coldish and heretical. And if this were 500 AD to 1600 AD in Europe, the adherents to your system would have me before an inquisition, and you would be applauding my drowning or burning at a stake.

So, which is the real “cult?”

There were Christians, ones who were never affiliated with anything that became the WCC (RCC), who were copying and using the Scriptures all over Asia Minor and Eastern Europe, and translating them into other European languages as early as 160 AD, and the MSS extant of those that never went through Alexandria or Rome (they principally went through Antioch of Syria and Byzantium and then north and west), are the Majority Text, that is, they represent the majority of the Greek NT MSS, whole and fragmented copies.

I know, I know, you are convinced that there weren’t any Christians or Christian churches in existence apart from the WCC (RCC) until the Reformers (1450 to 1600). You would like us all to believe that there were NO non-Catholic churches before the Reformation. Or if there were any, they were all necessarily heretical, because they wouldn’t bend or bow to papal authority.

Sorry, but the world did NOT get the Bible through YOUR WCC (RCC), which you mean to be THE CHURCH. The WCC (RCC) is not THE CHURCH. It is one of many organized bodies of local churches, just held in one grip under your papa (pope) in the Vatican.

God the Holy Spirit, Himself, has Superintended the preservation of His Words through history to the present, and he has used believers in the process, guiding them and the work they did. But God didn’t have to use the WCC (RCC), and He didn’t. He used individual Christians. Many of them never darkened the door of a WCC (RCC) church, but many of them that God used were tortured and/or murdered with the blessings of the “Bishop of Rome.”

And many a historical document has been altered for use to prop up your system. In the past 24 hours, I’ve done a little reading up on Tertullian myself, for example. If he were alive today, and conducting a ministry, the WCC (RCC) wouldn’t claim him, for sure.

249 posted on 02/20/2008 2:43:06 PM PST by John Leland 1789
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