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EBay abandons negative comments about buyers (Sellers will no longer be able to leave neg. feedback)
The Times (U.K.) ^ | February 6, 2008 | Suzy Jagger and Jonathan Richards

Posted on 02/06/2008 8:42:06 AM PST by Stoat

EBay abandons negative comments about buyers

 

All buyers and sellers are equal in the virtual auction world of eBay, but buyers are about to become more equal than everyone else.

From May, eBay, the world's biggest online auction house, will block sellers from posting any negative or neutral comments about buyers who purchase their goods to coax more of them on to the site.

The move means that anyone selling an item will have little recourse to complain that the purchaser of their Britney Spears T-shirt or antique Whitby egg-timer had been a late payer, or had become a persistent troublemaker, grumbling unfairly about their acquisition.

At the moment, eBay buyers and sellers are encouraged to give a rating about their counterpart on the auction site's feedback system, which alerts other customers about bad experiences and helps to self-regulate the auction site. A buyer or seller with a bad rating is effectively blacklisted. At present customers can scroll through several months of comments about both buyers and sellers to decide whether they feel comfortable doing business with them. Frequent gripes include a seller over-charging for postage, a purchased item delivered late or one party being generally dishonest.

EBay has defended the move, claiming that buyers need more protection than sellers because they have to send money to a counterparty they do not know.

A spokesman for Ebay said yesterday that the auctioneer wanted to stamp out an increasing practice where sellers who had received a bad rating would retaliate by posting a poor rating on the buyer. "Some sellers are gaming the system. And some buyers in turn have been turned off," the spokesman said.

The group added that it is rare for buyers to renege on payments. But sellers have claimed that the new system leaves them vulnerable to extortion with buyers wielding the ability to blacklist them without the opportunity to defend themselves.

A week ago eBay - which makes the bulk of its revenue from commissions - announced that it cutting the amount it cost to list an item on the site by a third, but increasing the commission it charged on completion from 5.25 to 7.5 per cent.

For the vast majority of sellers, this had the effect of increasing the overall cost of shifting goods on the site. For instance, to sell a £100 camera now costs £6.70, where previously it would have cost £5.85.

The higher commission means that sellers of high value goods now also pay more.

Sellers have claimed that the new system leaves them vulnerable to extortion, with buyers wielding the ability to blacklist them without the opportunity to defend themselves.

A week ago eBay - which makes the bulk of its revenue from commissions - said that it was cutting the amount it cost to list an item for sale on the site by a third but was increasing the commission it charged on completion from 5.25 to 7.5 per cent.

The new pricing structure unleashed a torrent of complaints on eBay's message boards, where its sellers - who have long been a vocal community - vented their anger.

One said: “The fees are deceiving: lowering the front-end cost, then adding it to the final fee. Anyone who can do the math can see that they are not lowering the fees, they are increasing them.” Another said: “As a seller, I have been kicked in the head.”

The latest upheaval comes at a difficult time for eBay. Its core business has struggled against slowing growth rates and it is trying to combat issues such as fraud, as well as increased competition from vendors, such as Amazon.

Last year it said that it was taking a $1.4billion (£712 million) charge in relation to Skype, the telephony service that it bought for $2.6 billion in 2005 and for which it admitted it had overpaid. Analysts have also expressed concern at the failure to increase the number of users, which remains static at 83 million.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: auction; business; ebay; economy; feedback; onlineauction
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To: Stoat

How does E-Bay make its money? (I’ve never used E-Bay.)


121 posted on 02/06/2008 5:33:16 PM PST by StormEye
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To: StormEye
How does E-Bay make its money? (I’ve never used E-Bay.)

I believe that most of their revenue comes from the various fees that sellers are required to pay in order to transact sales at their site.  It's free for buyers to use eBay.

122 posted on 02/06/2008 5:38:02 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

This is VERY STUPID.

As someone who is not a high volume seller, it was VERY important to me to HAVE those ratings as a buyer, because it helped establish my credibility as a seller.

Without that, many people won’t have any ratings and there is a dispute process with negative ratings and the vast majority of negative ratings are for SELLERS, anyway, so this change is unnecessary.

It hurts buyers. Now, sellers cannot distinguish between credible and non-credible buyers.

How stupid.


123 posted on 02/06/2008 5:47:39 PM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: volunbeer

My biggest issue with PayPal/Ebay is their customer service is all people who read from a script and simply are not fluent enough or not bold enough to try to REALLY understand the issue. Maybe the ones from the email are but the ones on the phone leave a LOT to be desired in terms of even comprehending the situation.

Almost every time I’ve spoken to someone from the Philippines or India, I feel like I wasted my time. (that goes for any CS call, not just PayPal or Ebay but credit cards also)


124 posted on 02/06/2008 6:13:08 PM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Your point about the blackmail aspect of seller feedback on buyers is appreciated and I adjust my previous position.

I think there should be a means to leave feedback about buyers but perhaps it has to be restricted to POST-official complaint to Ebay (regarding scamming, non-payment, etc.)

In any case, I recently won a jersey on EBay and PayPal still had my old account as the default and I told the buyer this and that I would look into how that resolves and still pay him from my open account. I did so and when I had not received the item, he said I had cancelled the payment and to pay him the money.

He and I went through several messages where I had to explain it to him. Because PayPal/Ebay want you to document your communications, I initiated a dispute on PayPal and he refunded my money after sending me a late email saying he would send the item.

All he had to do was send the stupid item. I feel like, in my bones, the person either had too many sales to understand that he WAS paid from the same guy with the cancelled payment OR he thought he could scam me out of some extra cash by playing stupid.

Well, I’m out the jersey but I got refunded.

I didn’t leave him any feedback with an implicit understanding that he wouldn’t leave me any. Consider it a misunderstanding and move on, since no one took a financial loss.


125 posted on 02/06/2008 6:28:30 PM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: StormEye
How does E-Bay make its money?

If you call them by their proper name FeeBay you'll begin to understand.

I've found parts for vintage motorcycles and boats and even a plane on eBay I never would have located elsewhere, and would never have been able to use the vehicles otherwise, so I'm thankful for it, but this latest crap is just the height of arrogance and greed and contempt for sellers.

126 posted on 02/06/2008 6:34:04 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureā„¢)
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To: Stoat
It's free for buyers to use eBay.

Ebay doesn't directly charge buyers but when sellers have to jack up their shipping to raise money to pay the selling fees...well, you get the idea.

127 posted on 02/06/2008 6:41:06 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureā„¢)
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To: steve86

Yes, charges will get passed along to the buyer.


128 posted on 02/06/2008 6:46:29 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat
This is intersting. I can see Ebay's point, but there should have been another way.

Personally, I have had to resort to giving a negative feedback a handful of times, and everytime, the seller slammed me in a negative feeedback.

2 of the times involved not receiving the product at all, then, after over a month of trying to work with the seller, giving up and posting negative feedback, paypal would investigate and get my money back for me.

The third was when I bought an "As New Demo" dirtbike from a dealer, only to have a POS that looked like it had run the Baja 1000, then performed messenger service on the UN/Hezzbollah Blue Line and then shipped to me.

I didn't buy it through pay pal (funny thing, the dealer didn't accept them), so my only recourse was to post my complaint on numerous motorcycle websites, including one brand specific site that had a dealer feedback section, where my complaint has recieved 18,482 views and 205 posts (until they froze the thread) in the 37 months it's been standing, an all time record.

In that case, the site administrator tried to mediate a solution, and there was 2nd hand input from both sides, but the seller refused to take the bike back or effect repairs, and Ebay wouldn't do anything about it. However, about 1/4 or better of the complaints turn out to be too high or unreasonable expectations from the buyer, who will often start publicly slamming the company as their 1st recourse.

Once these situations have a chance to air themselves out, almost all come to amiable conclusions, with the exception of a few rotten eggs that show up time and time again, and simply don't put a value on credibility.

Muzzling one side's ability to defend or cry fowl will only lead to unscrupulous characters trying to take advantage of honest businessmen, just the same as it would the consumers if the tables were turned.

129 posted on 02/06/2008 7:38:15 PM PST by 4woodenboats (defendourtroops.org defendourmarines.org)
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To: Stoat
Easy solution for sellers:

Post a caveat with each ad; Buyers with more than 1 negative feedback will have their bids removed. Period.

130 posted on 02/06/2008 7:44:24 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Bureaucracy is a parasite that preys on Free Thought and suffocates Free Spirit.)
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To: Stoat

This is a good move. Many sellers who receive and deserve a negative will give the buyer a negative in retaliation. All a buyer has to do is pay and pay promptly. A buyer takes all the risk! Sellers can protect themselves requiring Paypal or checks that they hold before they ship.


131 posted on 02/06/2008 7:53:44 PM PST by Doctor Don
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To: 4woodenboats
I have had to resort to giving a negative feedback a handful of times, and everytime, the seller slammed me in a negative feeedback.

That happens quite frequently, and has prompted me to look at a seller's activity before ever placing a bid.  Even though I've never left a negative (even though I should have.....but I decided to let the matter go because I was worried about retaliation spoiling my perfect feedback record) knowing how the seller reacts to such events gives me an insight into his or her character.  Do I want to give money to somebody who has a history of slamming others with  retaliatory negatives on numerous occasions?  Probably not, no matter how good of a deal the item is.

I bought an "As New Demo" dirtbike from a dealer, only to have a POS that looked like it had run the Baja 1000, then performed messenger service on the UN/Hezzbollah Blue Line and then shipped to me.

I'm very sorry to hear of your bad luck with such an expensive item.  I feel lucky that the stoatmobile has ended up being such a winner for me.  I bought it sight unseen, using only the eBay description and the 'feeling' that I got about the seller from his online activity and other feedback as my guide.  Boy, I sweated bullets when I bid on that thing but it's turned out to be the best car I've ever had in my life....although it could have easily turned out the opposite way.  Pure luck and stoat-sense, that's all it was.

Muzzling one side's ability to defend or cry fowl will only lead to unscrupulous characters trying to take advantage of honest businessmen, just the same as it would the consumers if the tables were turned.

You're probably right, and I wish that I knew of a "perfect" answer for all this.  After another decade or so the internet will be fine-tuned like a racehorse and we'll all be laughing at the primitive methods we used back in the early years of the century.

132 posted on 02/06/2008 9:26:11 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: abner

can’t you still leave a response to the negative feedback of a buyer which shows up underneath the negative feedback? I had a seller lie about my transaction and left me a negative so I just responded and it shows up underneath his bs.


133 posted on 02/06/2008 9:34:24 PM PST by fabian
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To: Bender2

My point is you sell a high volume and you sell frequently.
I only sell during short periods, once a year. When I first heard about the new feedback policy, I wasn’t worried because I figured any buyer trying to extort discounts using the threat of negative feedback wouldn’t be a problem, since my feedback is up around 300, all of it positive. Any other potential buyers would be able to see my overwhelming positives in the face of such nonsense. But it turns out the new policy includes expiring my postive feedback after a year, which means I have to start all over again building up trust with buyers.


134 posted on 02/07/2008 4:56:22 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: 4woodenboats

I just looked at our ratings for the last 12 months. 7332 Positive, 28 Neutral, 4 Negative. We really try not to leave neutral or negative feedback. We also try to work out problems. Sometimes we get someone who complains about everything...It doesn,t work right, it doesn’t look like the photo, I don’t like where it was manufactured. We usually bend over backward, give refunds, etc and some will still leave negative feedback. Then you look at their feedback and all sellers have the exact same problem. So we block them from further bidding. It is not worth the trouble. Without feedback on buyers, how do you know if they are just having a bad day or if they are always so much trouble to deal with?


135 posted on 02/07/2008 8:46:55 AM PST by MtnClimber ("Bullfighting, Mountain Climbing and Auto-Racing are the only real sports. Everything else are merel)
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To: Axelsrd
I use ebay a lot. I sell and buy so I know it from both sides. I recently sold an item and jumped the gun by leaving the buyer positive feedback. Much to my chagrin he then complained and wanted to return the item saying it was not as described. I’m no dummy. I knew exactly what was going on. It had cost more to ship the item than what was paid and the buyer wanted to hold me up for a refund thinking I would refund his money and tell him to keep the item. I refused. He left negative feedback. Not allowing seller the option of leaving negative feedback is a really stupid idea on ebays part. If the sellers cannot police the bad buyers then they will eventually become fed up with Ebay and shift to another venue.
136 posted on 02/11/2008 8:43:29 PM PST by kansascdr (Axelsrd I have photos of you from ITR. Want copies?)
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To: All

After reading in much more detail I am joining thousands of others and boycotting ebay for both selling and buying Feb 18-25 in protest of the new changes which really hurt ‘the little guy’

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000636290&tstart=0&mod=1202882850050

Please join me and tell others.


137 posted on 02/13/2008 8:07:28 AM PST by DeLaine
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Comment #138 Removed by Moderator

Yea, not sure what I am going to do yet either. Check out this eBay spoof of the FreeCreditReport.com TV ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq6CwCd5WQ

(opens in new window)

139 posted on 02/13/2008 8:23:40 AM PST by VastRWCon (Fred/Hunter 2008)
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To: DeLaine
Yea, not sure what I am going to do yet either. Check out this eBay spoof of the FreeCreditReport.com TV ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq6CwCd5WQ

(opens in new window)

140 posted on 02/13/2008 8:37:56 AM PST by VastRWCon (Fred/Hunter 2008)
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