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Myths About The Founders And Religion
The Bulletin ^ | 01/28/2008 | Michael P. Tremoglie

Posted on 01/28/2008 8:24:20 AM PST by William Tell 2

How liberals and atheists have misinformed people about the Founding Father's religiuos beliefs.

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=19238913&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=623508&rfi=6


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanfounders; antitheism; atheismandstate; atheists; culturewar; deists; democrats; islam; liberals; religion; religiousintolerance
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1 posted on 01/28/2008 8:24:21 AM PST by William Tell 2
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To: William Tell 2

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=19238913&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=623508&rfi=6


2 posted on 01/28/2008 8:32:02 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: William Tell 2
Misotheists like to claim that the Founding Fathers were deists

They were deists. The problem is that the meaning of the word has changed and they were deists in the old sense of the word which was merely the opposite of atheist. See e.g. Jefferson to Rush letter from April 1803.

ML/NJ

3 posted on 01/28/2008 8:36:43 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: sageb1

Thanks. I’ll bookmark.

What I find ironic is the secularists’ frequent citation of the Treaty of Tripoli, withits langiage stating that the US was not founded on the Christian religion. At the time this was signed, the Barbary pirates were attacking US vessels and taking American sailors hostage, and demanding tribute. In fact, the treaty addresses these payments to the pirates as well. After the treaty was signed, however, it was broken by the other side and the US sent its military “to the shores of Tripoli.

The treaty is NOT evidence of the secular foundings of our nation, but rather that the troubles we’ve had withradical Islamists of one stripe or another stretch back FAR before 9/11.

Scholars can argue about the founding of this nation, and they do. But the Treaty of Tripoli is about as credible a piece of “evidence” as a videotaped hostage statement.


4 posted on 01/28/2008 8:38:07 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: William Tell 2

One thing that the author neglects to mention is that there would have been no “need” to insert any denial that America was a Christian nation, but for the fact that the treaty was with Muslims. The Treaty of Tripoli was an appeasement treaty.


5 posted on 01/28/2008 8:39:11 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: cvq3842

Exactly.


6 posted on 01/28/2008 8:40:01 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: William Tell 2

Oops! I should have read the link first! Yes, he brings up the Treaty also.

Again, though, this treaty says nothing about the US, but a great deal about the mindset and tactics we’ve had to deal with in the Middle East, right from the beginning.


7 posted on 01/28/2008 8:40:01 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: ml/nj
I can quite agree that Jefferson was, without doubt, a deist. However, I have yet to see evidence that they were all deists.
8 posted on 01/28/2008 8:54:35 AM PST by In veno, veritas
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To: In veno, veritas
Hard to know which meaning of the word deist you are using here. Basically all of the people of the founding era were Christians, and they only differed about what it meant to be a Chirstian.

ML/NJ

9 posted on 01/28/2008 9:04:16 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: William Tell 2

later


10 posted on 01/28/2008 9:07:20 AM PST by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: William Tell 2

We have no government armed with power capable of
contending with human passions unbridled by morality
and religion.
Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break
the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale
goes through a net.
Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and
religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.

John Adams (1735 - 1826)


11 posted on 01/28/2008 9:08:32 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rudy,Romney,McCain, Huckabee will send a self-abused stomped elephant to the DRNC.)
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To: William Tell 2

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/


12 posted on 01/28/2008 9:08:35 AM PST by Mac94
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To: In veno, veritas; All

I agree with you .. they were NOT all deists.

I believe some of Benjamin Franklin’s writings state as much .. when Ben told of the deliberations during the writing of the Declaration of Independence.

However, the majority of our founders WERE Christians and were not ashamed of their faith.

Rush has stated that during the Revolution, there were 3 groups of people .. those who wanted to fight for freedom from England, those who sided with England, and those who didn’t give a rip. And .. Rush said .. those 3 groups are still with us today.


13 posted on 01/28/2008 9:10:22 AM PST by CyberAnt (AMERICA: THE GREATEST FORCE for GOOD in the world!)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

“Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and
religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.”

We are in BIG trouble!!!!


14 posted on 01/28/2008 9:14:00 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: CyberAnt

Only Franklin was a self described “Deist”. All others were member of Christian denominations including several catholics.


15 posted on 01/28/2008 9:15:42 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: ml/nj
They were deists. The problem is that the meaning of the word has changed and they were deists in the old sense of the word which was merely the opposite of atheist.

They were not all deists, the meaning of the word has not changed, and it does not have the meaning of “the opposite of atheist.”
Only Jefferson and perhaps Franklin were deists.
A deist is a person who believes in a supreme intelligence that created the earth and then left it alone. That is a deist believes in a God who’s intelligence is reflected in the creation (general revelation) but who has had no further revelations (special revelation) with mankind.
16 posted on 01/28/2008 9:24:57 AM PST by broncobilly
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To: William Tell 2

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the
unlimitable superior who reveals Himself in the slight
details we are able to perceive with our frail and
feeble minds.
That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of
a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the
incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.

Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)


17 posted on 01/28/2008 9:28:45 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rudy,Romney,McCain, Huckabee will send a self-abused stomped elephant to the DRNC.)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.

Yep, it is now inadequate.

18 posted on 01/28/2008 9:54:08 AM PST by polymuser (Just darn)
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To: broncobilly
They were not all deists, the meaning of the word has not changed, and it does not have the meaning of “the opposite of atheist.”

It really helps to know what you are talking about before beginning to post here at FR. The Oxford English Dictionary is essentially a history of meanings and usage of the words in the English Language. Here's what the OED has to say:

deist: One who acknowledges the existence of a G-d upon testimony of reason but rejects revealed religion.
(The term was originally opposed to atheist, and was interchangeable with theist, even in the end of the 17th C.)
The italics are in the OED. The OED goes on to quote something Locke wrote in 1695 as an example of this interchangeability. (Hmmmm. John Locke. Did he have any influence on Mr. Jefferson?)

You probably didn't have a look at the letter I linked to as it would be obvious that Mr. Jefferson employed Locke's usage of the word when he said of the Jews, "Their system was Deism; that is, the belief of one only G-d."

ML/NJ

19 posted on 01/28/2008 11:02:53 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj
he said of the Jews, “Their system was Deism; that is, the belief of one only G-d.”

Very interesting. Of course, that is a different use than you gave. In that sentence Locke seems to contrast deism and polytheism, not deism and atheism.
However, since you bring to the discussion of OED, which is good for finding all historical uses of a term, let me bring American Heritage Dictionary, two philosophy dictionaries, and one theological dictionary. All give only the definition I gave. That usage started in the 17th century and hasn’t changed since. I think the OED has simply found someone who had their own definition of the term in the day when the term was being defined and startiang to be used.
Interesting. Thanks for your thoughts.
20 posted on 01/28/2008 12:10:20 PM PST by broncobilly
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