Posted on 01/27/2008 5:53:09 AM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
Paul warned us about times like this and the way people – including those claiming to be professing Christians – would act. I strongly believe Paul had in mind the kind of people who run major Protestant denominations like the United Methodist Church.
Today, at an event in Fort Worth, Texas, leaders of the denomination, which boasts membership by President Bush and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, will consider divesting from all companies that do business with Israel.
To say that even considering such an action is hateful, unbiblical, anti-Christian and evil would be an understatement.
It's not even understandable except in the context of the kind of morally blind apostasy described by Paul.
The problem with these people is not that they don't understand the Middle East. It is simply that they are no longer able to tell right from wrong. They are no longer able to distinguish between good and evil. They are no longer able to see the difference between freedom and tyranny. They are no longer able to judge between criminal and victim.
They have, in short, completely lost their moral bearings.
This is no longer a church; it is an organization of misguided political activism. This is no longer a house of God; it is a mad house. This is no longer part of the bride of Christ; it is a whore to the world.
I know these are tough words, for which I am sure to be criticized by some of my Christian friends.
For those pastors leading Methodist churches who understand where your denomination is heading, it's time to pack up and divest yourself of links to the denomination.
It's separation time.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
“Mormons believe that they will be gods one day. They do not believe that the Trinity has always been and always will be the only Deity .”
And what do you believe? When you die you go to heaven.
Heaven. Kingdom of God with MANY MANSIONS.
You will live forever in peace and harmony. To do so, you will obviously be in complete control of your ‘universe’ so as to keep you happy forever.
Just what would one call that concept? Being a God.
A good Christian studies his practiced faith by religion.
A good Christian completely believes in his faith.
But, a good Christian understands that there are many paths to God.
Just what would one call that concept? Being a God.
>>>>No, we’re not Gods, but the children of the one and only God taken into the Kingdom of heaven.
But, a good Christian understands that there are many paths to God.
>>>>Again no, IN FACT if one believed that, one wouldn’t be a Christian at all.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).
“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” (1 John 4:3)
What a set of ugly, vicious alleged Christians infest these threads. The minority, thank goodness, but exceptionally vocal. This was a Methodists/Israel thread which was once again twisted into an anti-Mormon bigotry thread. You’ve managed to throw Romanists (Catholics) into your pile of bigotry also. And it’s funny, because Catholicism was the original Christian religion from which you Protestants chose to break off from. I’ll tell you what, God indeed is going to do the judging, and God is never going to allow you past the pearly gates.
Maybe we will, or maybe we won’t......8~)
Mainline Christian denominations believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the only Deity.
Don't know if you believe this. But Mormons do not.
Nonsense. You will have entered Heaven only by the grace of Christ.
You are no god and never will be!
However, let's keep our eye on the ball. Methodism was founded as a great counterweight to the established Anglican Church, a "low church" alternative to the wealthy landed gentry that controlled the churches in England back in the 18th Century. John Wesley, George Whitefield, and Bishop Emory all boldly went out and preached the gospel where the hoity-toity "Reverends" wouldn't dare go, to share Christ with the Least among us.
I've now seen the United Methodist Church devolve into a clubby, leftist organization devoid of Godly teachings from the DS level up. It's either one of two things:
-Lukewarm pablum that doesn't fill the soul, or
-Warmed over Marxism.
Towards the end of my time at Christ UMC, I was somewhat disturbed by how poorly my wife and kids were treated because I didn't have a 6-figure income. My son, who has tourettes, OCD, and some ADHD, would be made fun of by some of the other kids in his Sunday School class (some were children of so-called "Powerful Leaders In The Church"), while my wife and daughters were mostly left out of some of the activities unless I made it a point to include them (they didn't mess with me, because I'm a large man and shown that I could be intimidating if I had to be.).
We're in a Congregational Methodist church now. My kids and my wife are now accepted parts of this church. I've been shown some of the sinful things that have happened in my life here, and they've helped me to overcome with the power of the Lord. This church is NOT perfect, far from it. It's full of sinners, hypocrites, folks down on their luck, and reprobates....the difference here is that they're overcoming their faults through the power of Jesus and with the help of their brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Methodists both in the South and the North have now become the church of the Hoity-Toity. I was working for a gentleman who was an Investment Broker, he asked me what church I belonged to, then he asked me if the general congregation was well off? He said he had been to several of the local churches and found the Methodists in our town to be the most well off and that is where he was going to hang his hat in order to obtain their business and so he did. (pompous).
Now as for Israel, I cannot believe some of the stuff here on this thread about how Israel should be a Christian Nation! Are any of you serious about that? Jeshua was not a Christian HE was a Jew! Christianity is only about Jeshua's teachings it is not about HIS religion!
Now the thread here is about the Methodist Church, I don't think it much concerns any other mode of religious teachings including Mormonism, unless any of the other religions buy into what drivel the UMC church is spouting.
You do well at mining and compiling information for argument.
But I’d like to know what you actually believe for perspective if you don’t mind.
I’m Southern Baptist and don’t attend regularly but do beieve and on occasion attend Charismatic services.
Some people think it is the 51st state.
The First Council of Nicaea defined the Trinity as being three persons (hypostases) with one essence (ousia).
Origen, (c. 182 – c. 251) used it when he said God is one genus of ousia yet three distinct species of hypostasis: namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Synods of Antioch in 264-268 condemned the term homoousios (same substance) because of its Greek language and philosopher roots. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Paul of Samosata states:
It must be regarded as certain that the council which condemned Paul rejected the term homoousios; but naturally only in a false sense used by Paul; not, it seems because he meant by it an unity of Hypostasis in the Trinity (so St. Hilary), but because he intended by it a common substance out of which both Father and Son proceeded, or which it divided between them, — so St. Basil and St. Athanasius; but the question is not clear. The objectors to the Nicene doctrine in the fourth century made copious use of this disapproval of the Nicene word by a famous council.
The First Council of Nicaea in 325 debated the terms homoousios and homoiousios. The word homoousios means “same substance”, whereas the word homoiousios means “similar substance”. The council affirmed the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Godhead) are of the homoousious (same substance). Many commentators—most notably Walter Gibbon—have noted that the entire controversy hung on a difference of the smallest Greek letter (i, or iota).
The Chalcedonian Creed of 451 stated God is one ousia yet three hypostases.
Perhaps the description of the Trinity by St. Patrick’s concept of the Trinity, using a 3-leaved clover to highlight the Christian belief of ‘three divine persons in the one God’ as opposed to the widely held (at the time)Arian concept which regarded the Son of God, the Logos, as a created being.
That being said, I began this discussion with the admonition that the real message of Christ was simple. It does not need theologians, scholars, lawyers, priests, clergy, pastors, or the recitation of selected holy writings, whose verbiage, interpretation, and punctuation was fought over for years by the afore mentioned. Each of us has a direct personal relationship with God and will be judged by our own actions, character, and heart.
and that is why I moved on to the Southern Baptist Church!
(Trinity)
And neither did the early Christians - and Jesus never said it - He did, however, say: "“Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” (Jno. 10:34-36).
Jesus is the First Born Son, The Word, the Logos for our world =
There are many who believe that God the Father is the Supreme Creator of the Universe, that He sent His First Born Son, Jesus, to us = to teach us The Way back...and before Jesus left us, He promised to send 'another' - the Holy Spirit, the Still Small Voice that would testify to truth to us, to be our Comforter, His messenger, as it were.
Many do not believe in man's later interpretations that purport God the Father, His First Born Son, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to one entity = One in thought, one in deeds, yes - as we should be. But not one entity - it doesn't make sense to some that, if Jesus was also God the Father, He would pray to himself, for example, in the Garden, to have "This cup" removed from Him - but 'nevertheless' accepted the Father's decision, whichever way it went.
Many can't understand why one would claim that Jesus and the Father were the same entity and then when He was baptized, He would come down in the form of a dove and say, "This is My Beloved Son..." of Himself?
Jesus didn't teach the trinity. He said "I and the Father are One" "He who has seen me has seen the Father" = etc - Many take this in the manner of speaking of the time - to mean, I and the Father are one and who has seem me... means, we are one in thought, in deeds, in precepts...that Jesus, as God's living representative on earth, whatever He said/did was in complete harmony with the Father = and He came to teach us to know and do the same...as our heritage.
He told the disciples, before He left, in answer to their question about what they should do, how to carry on, without Him.
He told them that "Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. Philippians 4:9"
Indeed, He told them that they could not only do everything they had see Him do = which was His purpose here, to teach us how to do the Father's work, but that they would be able to do even more, as they would still be here to carry on after He was gone....
The point is: There are many different interpretations of the scriptures. All man can do is follow the Light as he understands it while searching for more understanding - there is no time left over to spend on tearing others down -= and NO ONE of us on this planet has the power to interpret for God or condemn our fellow man.
That's the Father's domain. Sufficient unto the day are our own responsibilities in our personal lives.
http://www.bibleanswer.com/uaregods.htm
May His Peace be unto you
But it seems you are willing to accept that even though Mormons accept that Deity exists outside the Trinity they are christians.
Even though they believe they will be gods.
I wouldn’t call refusing to do business with companies that have anything to do with Israel “apostasy”. Stupid, yes. But it isn’t apostasy.
Absolutely.
But since Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers born of Mr. & Mrs. God, they have to do a lot of dancing around to claim that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Mormons cling to this scripture to prove they will be Deity but the sense of the rest of the body of scripture stresses thousands of times man's mere humanity and that only God is, has been and ever will be Divine.
that He sent His First Born Son, Jesus, to us = to teach us The Way back
The Father did not send Christ only to teach.
He sent him to die for man's sin since there was no other way to Heaven.
Note to Christian Zionists: I think that unless you include the New Testament in your Bible study concerning Israel, you will continue to misinterpret Gen. 12:3:
Galatians 3:16: The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
Galatians 3:29: If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
Suffice to say, I think the Bible could not be clearer about what the promise made to Abraham (who is, BTW, the “father of many nations”) was pointing to — the true Promised Land:
Heb. 11:15-16 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country-a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Sounds right.
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