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To: timm22
Timm, excellent points. Sounds like some personal experience or pain, too.

The woman makes the first move, but that doesn't mean there is no response from the husband, or the woman becomes his slave. Remember that old photo of how complicated a man is, and how complicated a woman is? The man had one single switch, and the woman had 100? The point is that once the woman makes the move, the man gushes back in response. One of the earlier posters to my comment affirmed this. Catilin Flanagan says that a woman shouldn't have to "put out to get that new refrigerator she's always wanted" but there is a small element of truth to it.

The other element here is that sex withing today's marriage has evolved to not an essential, like food and breathing, but an option. And the woman doesn't give in unless he made her 100% happy prior to bedtime. If he came home grumpy, didn't put one of the kids to bed, spent an extra 30 minutes watching ESPN, didn't rinse his own dishes, and forgot to fold his own laundry, then by gosh the little woman was not going to going to be in the mood for his advances. The feminist movement affirms this refusal. What's more, if he persists, the little woman can charge him with rape.

Dr Laura and Caitlin F say this is the wrong attitude. That after 20 or so years, the sexual need is not balanced, yet the key to a healthy marriage is to not let the man go sex-starved, mostly because the woman has an underlying anger about the little things. If he's basically a decent man, if he is "provisioned" with extra sex, then hopefully he compensates her with the little fillips that she loves -- flowers, new appliances, jewelry, weekends away, maybe even more effort around the house. And Flanagan says that once the woman doesn't make sex conditional, she actually starts enjoying it again.

A previous poster provided a link to Caitlin's article, and Dr Laura's book is an easy read. If these are real time issues for you, suggest you read them.

Sorry, this is a man's perspective. But before giving up on your marriage, or living with a simmering anger for more months or years, suggest you give this a try.

If you're Christian you might want to look up Nancy Missler's testimonies about this topic. She mentioned starting to wear nicer dresses, making delicious dinners, and trying to look more feminine. To a feminist, these are major concessions, but in reality they are very little. And it turned her husband around, and their marriage around, after a very stressful time in their marriage.

Rereading your post, there is one more comment I can make. Suppose the wife gives in, but he doesn't change. Here's what I would recommend. Change the attitude. Of course he'll be surprised. Maybe he'll ask why, maybe not. If he does, just say that you've been talking with friends and you felt a little guilty about not understanding his needs well enough, and that you will make yourself available to him. But don't demand a reply, and certainly don't let him suspect you have an agenda.

See if something happens naturally. Ask him to help you fold laundry the morning after a fun night.

But hold him lovingly -- and I do mean lovingly -- accountable a few weeks later. Ask him if he really understands why you've changed your attitude. Tell him you are praying -- not demanding, but praying and hoping -- that, now that you have fulfilled one of his open needs, he will backfill one of yours.

It's important here to make no threats, or to not make him feel that if he gives you the wrong answer, or no answer, that you'll pull away again.

If your husband is a decent man, he can't not respond positively.

My wife and I went through a version of this. The cold war, months without sex, anger. Then I read the Flanagan article and the Dr Laura book. I put them on her pillow and begged her to read them, and we both underlined them extensively and wrote comments in the margin.

I was the one reaching out. I told her that I had probably had underlying anger about sex 90% of the time since our first child was born 10 years earlier. I told her that I couldn't guarantee it, but that if she could find a way to lovingly love me a couple times a week, then I hope my anger would basically go away.

I didn't threaten her with leaving. I had already committed to stay with her for life and that never entered the discussion. I know she respected me for not trying to threaten or make conditional my words.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Good luck and God bless. Give your husband another chance.

341 posted on 01/25/2008 1:44:03 PM PST by tom h
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To: tom h

Great post, and I would be interested in reading the book. Would Nancy Missler be Chuck Missler’s wife?


369 posted on 01/25/2008 2:20:54 PM PST by mrsmel
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To: tom h

Excellent post!

I do have a question though, that has come up in more than one circle...
What if your husband is a erm, inconsiderate lover? And when you try to tell him that A hurts or B doesn’t work or C scares you....he gets his feelings hurt and his ego gets offended.

Or he says he’ll try but next time, he’s back to George of the Jungle without the fun. Or he overtly finds an excuse why he can’t do it, or he simply ‘forgets’.

It’s more than ‘giving him sex’....sometimes, it’s that you’d like to be part of the fun and he doesn’t seem to comprehend that just because he had fun, you automatically didn’t.

Basically, I just tell them to go buy a vibrator and let him have his and then you get yours :)

Seriously, this is something that Dr. Laura et al don’t address.


375 posted on 01/25/2008 2:30:15 PM PST by najida (I am so grateful that stupid isn't contagious.)
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To: tom h
Tom,

Thank you for the thorough reply. You answered my questions very well. I have a much better understanding of where you are coming from now, and while I still don't agree in all respects, I think what you are describing has a lot of merit.

For the record, I'm actually an unmarried man. So no dresses for me. LOL! Guess I should have clarified that first. The scenario I described was based on relationships I've observed.

391 posted on 01/25/2008 2:59:05 PM PST by timm22 (Think critically)
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