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The Other Green Engine: Diesel?
Forbes ^ | 1/19/08 | Joann Muller

Posted on 01/20/2008 1:24:30 AM PST by bruinbirdman

Looking for a fuel-efficient alternative to your current gas-guzzler? How about a car that gets 30% better fuel economy, doesn't require a giant battery in the trunk or have to be plugged into the wall, and can travel 600 miles between fill-ups?

Believe it or not, automakers may have a tough time selling those attributes to consumers later this year, when a new generation of diesel-powered vehicles arrives in dealerships. Images from the 1970s--of rattling engines and tailpipes spewing black soot--are hard to shake. And, thanks to superb marketing by Toyota (nyse: TM), maker of the Prius hybrid, Americans are convinced hybrids are the only green choice available, despite some discussion of diesel cars' potential. (See "Day of The Diesel.")

In Pictures: The New Diesels

Until now, that was largely true. Aside from heavy-duty pickups, only about 3% of U.S. light-duty vehicles are powered by diesel today. Tougher emissions rules bumped several diesels, like the Jeep Liberty, off the road in recent years. And in some states, like California and New York, diesels aren't sold at all because the state emissions laws are even tougher. (One exception: Mercedes E320 Bluetec--a special version was recently made available in California.)

But a new generation of modern diesels is on its way to all 50 states, led by carmakers based in Europe, where half of all consumers prefer diesels.

By late summer, the first of those modern diesels will arrive: the Volkswagen (other-otc: VLKAF.PK) Jetta TDI. VW says it will get over 50 miles per gallon on the highway (40 mpg around town), and can go over 600 miles between fill-ups. Prices will start in the low $20,000s, about $2,000 more than a traditional Jetta.

Later this year, Mercedes, BMW and Audi will bring their own so-called "clean" diesels to the United States. By 2010, availability of diesel-powered cars is expected to jump sharply as other automakers, including Acura and Jeep, begin offering them, too. By 2017, J.D. Power & Associates forecasts 14% of cars sold in the U.S. will have diesel engines. Germany's Robert Bosch, a major supplier of critical diesel components, forecasts diesel penetration in light-duty pickups and SUVs will reach 20% by 2015.

"I'm pretty optimistic this might be just the beginning," says Daimler AG Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche. Daimler's Mercedes division sold 12,500 diesels in the U.S. last year, even without California or New York, its two largest markets. This fall, it will begin selling three SUV models with advanced diesel engines: the ML320 Bluetec, R320 Bluetec and GL320 Bluetec.

Diesel versions of BMW's 3-series sedan and X5 sport utility will also go on sale this fall. Says BMW Chief Executive Norbert Reithofer: "We realized that with the additional weight of a hybrid battery, the miles per gallon is not as good as we thought. We think the better solution at the moment is diesel."

But Reithofer admits BMW made a mistake by not pushing diesels years earlier, when hybrids started grabbing attention. Now, he and Zetsche agree: It will take the combined marketing efforts of all the European carmakers to turn Americans' heads. "We need an action together to sell diesels in the U.S.," says Reithofer.

One likely selling point: performance. Consumers want peppy performance, and thus, tend to buy bigger engines with more horsepower. But the rush you feel when you push the accelerator is thanks to the engine's torque, not its horsepower. A V-6 diesel can deliver as much torque as a larger V-8, with much better fuel economy.

There's another advantage to diesels: Their resale value is two to three times that of a traditional gasoline-powered car. VW spokesman Keith Price, for example, says a 1998 Jetta TDI (diesel) with 175,000 miles is worth $7,500 today. The same car, with a 2.0-liter, four-cylinder gasoline engine "is a $2,000 'beater' you'd buy for your teenager."

In Pictures: The New Diesels


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: auto; automobiles; automotive; cars; diesel; dieselengines; energy
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1 posted on 01/20/2008 1:24:32 AM PST by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

Interesting article, thank you for posting.

I have a diesel and I love it to pieces....I’ll never go back to a gasoline engine if I can possibly avoid it. I’m delighted that these automakers are going to be ‘pushing’ diesel in the coming years, as that will serve to lower prices on fuel and perhaps parts for the rest of us as well.


2 posted on 01/20/2008 1:54:48 AM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: bruinbirdman

diesels are nice, I suppose,
but we need an electric car.


3 posted on 01/20/2008 1:57:52 AM PST by patch789
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To: Red Badger

4 posted on 01/20/2008 2:44:33 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: bruinbirdman
Perhaps I’m missing something here, but so what?

You get about twice as much gasoline out of barrel of crude than you do diesel fuel. I fail to see how this improves overall oil consumption. There's no free lunch.

5 posted on 01/20/2008 3:01:53 AM PST by DB
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To: bruinbirdman

GM will have a diesel half ton in 2010. By 2015 all the bugs should be worked out and I’ll buy one. No reason why my current truck, which I bought in 2000, can’t last for 15 years. Dodge will have one sooner, but they put out a crappy truck with a good motor.


6 posted on 01/20/2008 3:10:44 AM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: bruinbirdman; All
Regular Gasoline Prices Graph. On-Highway Diesel Fuel Prices Graph.

  What We Pay For In A Gallon Of Regular Gasoline (November 2007) Retail Price: $3.08/gallon What We Pay For In A Gallon Of Diesel (November 2007) Retail Price: $3.40/gallon

 Source

7 posted on 01/20/2008 3:18:40 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: DB

Would you not save on oil consumption by switching to bio diesel?


8 posted on 01/20/2008 3:29:24 AM PST by Clive
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To: DB
You get about twice as much gasoline out of barrel of crude than you do diesel fuel. I fail to see how this improves overall oil consumption.

Are you talking about consumption or production? You can produce 2x as much gasoline, yes. And typically a barrel of crude has different amounts of different types of fuel...but consumption is quite something else.
Diesel also has the advantage of being easily reproduced from other bio-forms than crude oil.
9 posted on 01/20/2008 3:37:47 AM PST by dyed_in_the_wool ("O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - Koran 5.51)
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To: bruinbirdman

The thing about diesels is that they are, in effect, hybrids; they’re ready for biodiesel without any modification. Anything — animal, vegetable or mineral — that produces oil is a potential fuel source.

I’ve read that biodiesel was Henry Ford’s first choice, but he went with gasoline because it was dirt cheap. At the time, it was a waste product — what was left over from the production of kerosene, which was replacing whale oil as the home fuel of choice.


10 posted on 01/20/2008 3:39:20 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Clive
There’s no indication that I know of that shows there’s anywhere near the supply of bio diesel to make much of difference without other serious consequences. So far all bio whatever is doing is driving up food prices dramatically.

Bio fuels are really solar energy fuels. Anyone know how solar cells compare to plants and the processing required and then the inefficient burning of that bio fuel in an engine compares to more direct electric cars? The only real and serious solution is build lots of nuclear power plants. You can then either go to electric cars or make fuel with electricity that can be used in more traditional cars.

11 posted on 01/20/2008 3:41:30 AM PST by DB
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To: bruinbirdman
VW says it will get over 50 miles per gallon on the highway (40 mpg around town), and can go over 600 miles between fill-ups.

This puts the lie to assertions that 35mph CAFE standards condemn us to driving flimsy, wimpy, unsafe econoboxes, or will ruin the auto industry. The technology to achieve that mileage, in a roomy, fast, safe car is here right now. I do not support the use of govt. fiat to achieve progress, but people on FR should wake up. Oil is going to run out sooner or later. Drilling in the Arctic won't change that fact. It makes no sense to continue driving oversized, overweight, technologically primitive machinery.

12 posted on 01/20/2008 3:42:24 AM PST by hellbender
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To: DB
Remember, going green, and global warming are not about conserving energy or environment. Those are all about fleecing the American people, and controlling their behavior.
13 posted on 01/20/2008 3:42:51 AM PST by exnavy ( note to islamists,God means love, not hate.)
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To: dyed_in_the_wool

Production.


14 posted on 01/20/2008 3:43:35 AM PST by DB
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To: hellbender
Diesel has more energy per gallon.

It is as simple as that.

But...

It takes more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel and if demand goes up in relation to gasoline it will cost a lot more - along with everything that is shipped or otherwise transported with it.

There’s no free lunch.

Comparing diesel to gasoline is apples to oranges.

15 posted on 01/20/2008 3:48:34 AM PST by DB
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To: patch789
diesels are nice, I suppose, but we need an electric car.

Your limerick is missing the last three lines, and it doesn't rhyme.

How about a diesel-electric plug-in series hybrid? The lingering weakness of electric cars is limited range and long time to recharge. Gas and diesel engines have effectively unlimited range, because you can refuel and get back on your way in a matter of minutes.

A series hybrid is the best of both worlds; for a short daily commute, you plug in at home, plug in at work, and you have an electric car. When the battery gets depleted, the gas/diesel (or even LPG) engine, a generator, really, kicks in. The generator is always running at peak efficiency; it's on or it's not. There is no gearing down, no energy wasted at idle. There's not even a transmission. And when you're braking or coasting downhill, the engine becomes a dynamo feeding energy back into the battery.

The only downside is that when you're driving in full-electric, you're lugging around a generator and a fuel tank, extra weight you don't need. An ideal solution would be to make the car modular, so you could drive the electric and leave the motor and fuel tank at home; or even swap between diesel, gas, ethanol and LPG depending on what's available and cheap. But making such a modular system safe and easy enough for Joe Public to use would be a daunting engineering challenge, and it wouldn't come cheap.

When I was a teenager, I had an idea for a series hybrid. I wanted to get an old postal jeep -- they were switching over to the minivan-style ones, and the old CJs were going pretty cheap at government surplus auctions. Mechanically simple, reliable, good in a variety of weather and terrain.

My idea was to install an electric motor, put the batteries (lead-acid back then; we have much better options now) in the back, and put a generator and LPG tank on the roof. I chose LPG because it burns clean, and is readily available; you can swap out a gas grill-type tank at any major highway exit.

Alas, I never had the money, the time, or a garage to tackle the project.

16 posted on 01/20/2008 4:03:31 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: DB
Comparing diesel to gasoline is apples to oranges.

Except that apples and oranges don't grow on the same tree.

If demand for diesel goes up relative to gasoline, then so will refining -- the market will follow the demand when refiners decide what to make with their crude.

17 posted on 01/20/2008 4:07:25 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: bruinbirdman

I loved my VW Beetle diesel. (51 MPG)


18 posted on 01/20/2008 4:08:20 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime
I love my 1984 MB 190D - 460,000+ miles, 5-speed manual, purchased new, 44-46 mpg year-in-year-old.
19 posted on 01/20/2008 4:29:47 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: DB
<Diesel has more energy per gallon.

It's not just the fuel. The modern turbocharged direct-injected diesel engine is also more fuel-efficient than most spark-ignition engines, esp. the antique pushrod, 2-valve per cylinder junk Detroit still puts out. Diesels are also more durable and require less maintenance.

if demand goes up in relation to gasoline it will cost a lot more - along with everything that is shipped or otherwise transported with it.

Almost everything that is transported to the market gets there by diesel already. Railroads and heavy trucks all run on diesels.

There may be no free lunch, but there is a less expensive lunch.

Conservatives should not be taken in by the propaganda put out by Detroit. Instead of innovating and competing, the Big 3 management put out absolute junk for years. Japanese competition forced them to finally improve their quality, but the still haven't learned to compete.

20 posted on 01/20/2008 4:36:23 AM PST by hellbender
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