Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: SargeK
"Once in a while, when rapid firing on semi-auto, the thing would kick off two or three rounds and then jam."

Looks like the guns were junk and would behave exactly like a machine gun unexpectedly.

"BATF got hold of one and took it to their lab."

Looks like the guy never corrected the problem that resulted from his own work.

"They used soft primer ammo, and ‘tuned’ it to get it to rip through a mag."

Tuned it my ass. They used commercially available ammo and it behaved identically to a machne gun.

"In short, THEY made it into a machine gun"

BS.

"He even had a letter from the BATF ahead of time saying that what he was doing was legal so long as the thing didn’t have the auto sear or modifications to the receiver."

The ATF can't control for sloppy workmanship.

"I spent time in Federal Court testifying and watched the entire trial."

Wonderful.

"The only reason that the defendant won was that he had none other than Col. William C. Davis himself come in a testify for the defense that it was BATF’s abuse of the weapon that made it full-auto."

Davis of course provided no evidence that ATF did any modificaitons to the guns that were inherently of such poor quality that they would behave identically to a full auto weapon on a random, or consistent basis. I'm sure if Davis purchased one of those gems, expecting semi and got auto at some unexpected point, he'd have been less than amused at the poor quality. I'm sure the jury was simply sympathetic to the defense's storytelling.

In no way does any of what you said amount to ATF fabricating evidence.

58 posted on 01/17/2008 1:15:35 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies ]


To: spunkets
...the guns that were inherently of such poor quality...

The one he was originally busted for was an Olympic Arms that malfunctioned while someone else was shooting it. His machining 80% business was actually one of the better outfits out there and entirely above board. No charges have been filed against him for any of those rifles.

Learn something before you make yourself sound any more ignorant...

60 posted on 01/17/2008 1:40:04 PM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies ]

To: spunkets

If we were talking about product liability for a defective product, I may have to agree with you. However, in the instant case, I am in possession of the facts, whereas you are not. The federal judge dismissed the machine-gun counts mid-trial. They never went to the jury. There never was any intent to make a weapon that fired multiple rounds per operation of the trigger. It was only through very heavy use that the flaw became apparent. Col. Davis was consulted several times before his testimony and he demanded to see all of the evidence held both by the feds and the defense before he would agree to testify. He would not have done so would he have believed that our man had committed a crime. The government witness - a tech in the ATF lab, got demolished by cross examination as to the extent of the work they did on the gun to make it fire full auto.

I’m not even sure the ATF knew about the flaw when the bought the rifle with the intent to prosecute the builder. The subtext was that they thought they could bring this case a use it to pressure on the defendant to infiltrate and inform on a racial separatist group which the feds mistakenly thought our man had access to. If it sounds a lot like a case in rural Idaho that had a very unhappy ending, you would be correct, only this one was years earlier.


64 posted on 01/17/2008 1:49:21 PM PST by SargeK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies ]

To: spunkets
In no way does any of what you said amount to ATF fabricating evidence.

Why wouldn't they? They've been caught committing perjury as a matter of institutional procedure, so that's just one more step along the same path.

A better question might have been to what extent the ATTU/BATF/BATFE has been involved in political assassinations, and in *unsolved bombings* and arsons against union offices, designed to bring that crime into the BATF/E purview, increasing their staff and budgets.

The second Big Mistake of Altamont was the hiring of Ralph "Sonny" Barger and a contingent of Hell's Angels to keep the peace.

Barger, it has since been divulged, was an informant and hit man on the payroll of the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). When Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver fled the country for Algeria, the ATF negotiated with Barger to "bring Cleaver home in a box." He often made deals with law enforcement in exchange for dismissal of charges against fellow Angeles. Barger was even hired by federal agents to kill immigrant farm labor activist Cesar Chavez, and may well have if Barger hadn't first been arrested by police into the Bay area on a prior homicide charges. 7

The accusation arose in the death of Servios Winston Agero, a drug dealer. In a surprise courtroom maneuver, Sonny took the witness stand and confessed to his arrangement with local police and federal agents. Over a period of several years, he testified, he had brokered deals with Oakland authorities to give up the location of hidden cache's of automatic weapons, mortars and dynamite in exchange for the dismissal of all charges against member of his motorcycle gang. This was a deal he had brokered with Edward Hilliard, then a sergeant at the Oakland Police Department's vice squad. Hilliard refused to comment when questioned by reporters. The defendant admitted for the record that he sold narcotics for a living, forged IDs, and slept with a pistol under his pillow. On several occasions, though, Barger refused to respond to questioning and was fined $3,000 by Judge William J. Hayes for each demurral.

Deputy prosecutor Donald Whyte asked the "spiritual" leader of the Hell's Angeles, an admitted federal operative, to name officers who asked him to "kill someone." Barger squired and claimed that he could not recall, exactly, but attempted several phonetic variations of a possible name. 8 Even in the courtroom, it seems, he was not about to risk retaliation by government contacts.

But the deal was exposed anyway by ATF whistle-blower Larry Shears. The agent told his story to narcotics agents, and they gathered evidence on the murder plan before talking to the press. Shears announced that Barger had been contracted to kill Chavez, an assassination ordered by agribusiness magnates in the San Joaquin Valley. Chavez was only alive, Shears reported, because there had been delays. The first came when AFT agents insisted that certain files first be stolen from the farm union. The arson of union offices was attempted by hired hands, another delay. Confirmation of these allegations came three weeks later when union officials complained to reporters that there had been recent "arson attempts against [farm] union offices. Others have been riddle with bullet holes, and on at least two occasions, attempts were made to steal records in the union offices."

The next glitch in the Chavez assassination, Shears said, came when the hit man, Sonny Barger, was arrested for the Agero murder. To support his statements, Shears waved a federal voucher at reporters signed by Senator Edward Kennedy, a payment of $10,000 to Shears for services rendered as an informant to narcotics agents and the IRS." 9

In March 1989, according to wire releases, Sonny Barger was convicted with four other Angels for conspiracy to violate federal firearms and explosives laws in a variety of plots to kill members of rival motorcycle clubs. Barger and Michael Vincent O'Farrell were sentenced in US District Court, Louisville, Kentucky, for their part in the transport of explosives with intent to kill. Barger and three others were slapped with additional counts for "dealing with a stolen government manual." Barger was freed on parole three years later. The mystery of his early release was dispelled by the Tucson Weekly in 1996--it seems Barger had a political guardian: "You can talk about the biker tradition," a law enforcement source explained, "the Harley, the patch that they've killed for, but in the end, what's most important is money. Hell's Angeles is represented in 18 countries now. They're probably the largest organized crime family that we export from the US. At the center of this global expansion is Oakland-based International President "Sonny" Barger, who's had his hand on the throttle of Hells Angels' money and mayhem machine since the late '50s, despite occasional prison stints. When Barger was released from prison in 1992, an estimated 3,000 people attended his party.... Some influential people might get bought. I can't tell you that Colorado Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell received any money.... I do know that he used his influence to try to get Sonny Barger out of prison." 10

Barger's booze-swaggling, two-wheeling entourage were paid killers. And since the carnage at Altamont, the Hell's Angels have twice attempted to kill the Rolling Stones. In March, 1983, a witness called himself "Butch," his true identity protected by the federal witness program, testified before a Senate Judiciary Committee about plots to kill the Stones. "There's always been a contract on the band," he admitted under questioning. There were "two attempts to kill them that I know about. They will some day. They wear they will do it." The vendetta, Butch said, originated with the killing at the Speedway concert, and was motivated by the failure of the Stones to back the Angel prosecuted for the killing. The first attempt to assassinate the entire band took place in the mid-'70s. "They sent a member with a gun and a silencer" to a hotel where the Stones were staying. The hit-man "staked out the hotel, but [the Stones] never showed up," said the government informant. And in 1979, the Angels' New York chapter "were going to put a bomb in the house and blow everybody up and kill everybody at the party." But this conspiracy sank with a cache of plastic explosives, accidentally dropped overboard from a rubber raft. Killing the Stones, he testified, was an "obsession" with the bike gang." 11

103 posted on 01/18/2008 7:01:58 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson