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Dud missile(Russian cruise missiles)
India Today ^ | January 10, 2008 | Sandeep Unnithan

Posted on 01/12/2008 8:10:58 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Dud missile

Sandeep Unnithan

January 10, 2008

It was dubbed Baby Tomahawkski, a short-legged Russian version of the eponymous US cruise missiles. Fired from the torpedo tube of a submarine, it could fly over 300 km delivering a 400 kg warhead to a target with pin-point accuracy.

It would give the Indian Navy’s submarines capability to attack targets on land. Yet, the Kilo class submarine INS Sindhuvijay and the land-attack missiles it is equipped to fire have today joined aircraft carrier Vikramaditya as another bone of contention that India has with its largest defence supplier, Russia.

The navy recently refused to take the delivery of Sindhuvijay, which completed refit at the Zvyozdochka shipyard near St Petersburg after its missiles failed to find their targets.

The 50-man crew sent to Russia to sail back with the submarine is set to return to India with the naval brass taking a stern line by asking the shipyard to fix the problem before it takes the delivery of the submarine.

The Sindhuvijay, which completed its year-long refit in Russia last year, sailed to a test range in the Barents Sea for a series of firings on land targets.

The 3M54E1 Klub cruise missiles, however, failed to hit the targets in as many as six consecutive test firings carried out in the Arctic between September and November.

In certain cases, the snub-nosed subsonic missiles veered several kilometres away from their intended targets leading the navy to take this drastic step. It will take another year to rectify the defects and prove it in trials.

Delays seem to have become a common feature with some of the recently acquired Russian equipment. Last year, India had suspended payments for one of the three IL-38 maritime patrol aircraft upgraded with the Sea Dragon submarine detection equipment, because they did not meet performance parameters.

The navy has detected hull vibrations on the three Talwar class frigates bought from Russia during 2003-04 and interface issues with the Ka-31 airborne early warning (AEW) helicopters flown off these frigates.

Russia has also indicated a six-month delay in the delivery of the Akula-II nuclear-powered submarine, Chakra, moored at the far eastern shipyard of Komsomolsk on Amur.

The navy plans to lease it for 10 years to train crew to man its indigenous nuclear submarine, the Advanced Technology Vessel. The Kilo class submarine involves two variants of a missile, which arms eight of the navy’s fleet of 10 Soviet-built Kilo class submarines acquired between 1985 and 2000.

In the past five years, the submarines were sent to Russia for refits which involved not only refurbishment but also modification of their torpedo tubes to allow them to fire tube-launched missiles, giving the navy the capability to attack surface ships from submarines.

So impressed was the navy with the Klub missile— with ranges in excess of 200 km they are twice the range of competing systems like the Harpoon—that it became its first customer. It ordered 175 missiles for its warships and submarines in 1998, receiving them between 2001 and 2006.

The Sindhughosh and the Sindhuvijay were equipped with the new land-attack variant costing roughly Rs 30 crore each. These new missiles are crucial to influencing the outcome of a land battle by attacking targets like enemy airbases and infrastructure facilities.

Two years ago, the Sindhughosh was equipped with land attack missile in Russia, becoming the first Indian submarine to be equipped thus. Coming out of its refit in Zvyozdochka shipyard it hit targets on land in the Barents Sea two times out of the four test firings.

The 50 per cent hit rate was regarded as acceptable and the navy took delivery. In the past few years, however, the navy has been plagued with a series of misfires from anti-ship variants of the missile fired from Kilo class submarine.

Now the non-performance of the land-attack variant has only added to the navy’s worries: it bought 28 of them from Russia in 2006 for Rs 844 crore.

“Unsatisfactory performance by contractors is not a new phenomenon,” says Rear Admiral (retired) Raja Menon. “It cannot be said to be a failure on the part of the navy because it runs tough contracts,” he added. However, the glitches are significant because they are one in a series of technical defects, which have surfaced in Russian-origin equipment in the past few years.

Analysts say this is due to a change in the way equipment is now being purchased from Russia. Earlier, most military equipment saw extensive service in the Soviet Union and was then exported to client states like India.

This changed after the breakup of the Soviet Union and with the bankruptcy of its military. Its vast military industrial complex lost its largest buyer and operator.

The Indian Navy was the first customer for many systems like the upgraded IL-38, the Talwar class frigates, Klub missiles and Ka-31 AEW helicopters.

It now seems to be paying the price for inadequately tested equipment. While it is not clear where the problem with this variant of the missile is, the navy believes it lies in the submarine’s gyro, which feeds in the crucial parameters into the missile before it is launched. The gyro is also believed to be at the heart of the problems in the anti-ship variants of the Klub.

The navy is planning to install French-built inertial navigation systems in Kilo class submarines to replace the Russian-built systems.

“If the problems persist, we may have to consider replacing the Klub with other options,” said a defence ministry official. Part of the shopping list during navy chief Sureesh Mehta’s visit to Israel was to explore other options.

Replacing it, however, is considered as the last option as it involves extensive rewiring of the entire submarine fleet. Until then, the winter of discontent with Russia continues.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: aerospace; armsmerchants; cruisemissile; cruisemissiles; india; navair; russia; russianmilitary; sizzler; ssn27sizzler; submarine; substandardarmaments
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1 posted on 01/12/2008 8:10:59 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

SS-N-27 Sizzler / P-900, 3M54 Klub family

http://warfare.ru/?catid=312&linkid=2181


2 posted on 01/12/2008 8:13:25 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
"The navy recently refused to take the delivery of Sindhuvijay, which completed refit at the Zvyozdochka shipyard near St Petersburg after its missiles failed to find their targets."

"Mr. President, if I may speak freely, the Russkie talks big, but frankly, we think he's short of know-how. I mean, you just can't expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys."

3 posted on 01/12/2008 8:26:19 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When is the world going to learn? Russian miljunk looks great on paper, better than US equivalents in most cases. But on the test range and in the battlefield, it just never seems to meet expectations. I’d like to meet some of the people stupid enough to buy into the paper hype about Russian miljunk. There’s a bridge in NY or two that I’d like to sell to them...


4 posted on 01/12/2008 8:33:54 AM PST by piytar
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To: piytar

One exception, of course, is the AK-47, but we’re not talking high tech here. In fact, the AK’s success stems largely from the fact that it is an incredible design that can be implemented with sloppy manufacturing techniques...


5 posted on 01/12/2008 8:38:50 AM PST by piytar
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I kind of wish the Chinese would buy all the Russian stuff and the Indians would be a loyal customer of American stuff. Bad idea to “non-aligned” but in reality on friendly terms with Iranian and Russian scum.


6 posted on 01/12/2008 8:43:05 AM PST by dr_who_2
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To: dr_who_2

IIRC, India’s biggest source of weapons is Israel, now.


7 posted on 01/12/2008 8:48:33 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

India becomes outsourced beta tester of Russian systems


8 posted on 01/12/2008 8:48:59 AM PST by Soliton (Sarcasm is an educational tool)
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To: piytar
largely from the fact that it is an incredible design that can be implemented with sloppy manufacturing techniques...

It was a stolen German concept

9 posted on 01/12/2008 8:50:59 AM PST by Soliton (Sarcasm is an educational tool)
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To: Soliton

Why am I not surprised?


10 posted on 01/12/2008 9:00:44 AM PST by dadgum
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To: piytar

The raw performance of individual Russian systems seem ok,if not good.The problem is with their “brains” & their level of integration with other systems.Look at the case of this missile-the problem seems be with the sub’s gyros,which are responsible for loading targetting data into the missile.A variant of this missile serves on Indian frigates-those seem to working well.


11 posted on 01/12/2008 9:15:35 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: dr_who_2

China is Russia’s biggest customer,but India operates just too much Russian hardware(tanks,aircraft/helicopters,ships/subs & weaponry) to let go off it’s Russian connection abruptly .It’s a gradual process & it’s already happening with more contracts going to European,Israeli & of late,American firms.In addition to joint projects with Indian firms.


12 posted on 01/12/2008 9:17:40 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

You asked me earlier why I’m suspicious of anything Soviet/Russian in origin performing to spec? Here’s a great example of why.

Once again, Russian missiles didn’t work.


13 posted on 01/12/2008 9:23:00 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: piytar
One exception, of course, is the AK-47, but we’re not talking high tech here. In fact, the AK’s success stems largely from the fact that it is an incredible design that can be implemented with sloppy manufacturing techniques...

Indeed, it is a very impressive engineering feat.

One of the few devices worthy of an engineer's highest complement: It is elegant...

14 posted on 01/12/2008 9:23:10 AM PST by null and void (Conservatives are tired of being sucked up to every 4 years and stabbed in the back for the next 3.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It doesn’t matter. The sub and the missiles all came from the same source and should have been tested by the maker prior to delivery.

I doubt that the shipyard even bothered.


15 posted on 01/12/2008 9:24:48 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: piytar
Looks like the Indian military is a bunch smarter than their Syrian and Iranian counterparts.

India went to school on the non-functional anti-aircraft systems Russia sold their middle east buddies. Those pieces of junk didn't detect the Israeli strike coming, much less launch anything at it.

16 posted on 01/12/2008 9:42:47 AM PST by HardStarboard (Take No Prisoners - We're Out Of Qurans)
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To: Spktyr

Russian Q.C is lousy-no doubt about that.It’s always been.


17 posted on 01/12/2008 9:43:54 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Soliton
It was a stolen German concept

Only the basic concept. The AK is a much simplified design. The German designs were more like our current ones, a bit on the complicated side, with precise tolerances required. The AK, and many other Soviet designs of the period, OTOH, explicitly recognized the inferiority of Soviet manufacturing processes. Many of these "Duds" were designed or built, or both, during the decade or two of upheaval that followed the (temporary?) End of the Evil Empire.

18 posted on 01/12/2008 9:51:39 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Besides which, isn’t the Klub supposed to be able to accept in-flight course corrections or updates? If so, the problem goes further than just the sub’s gyros...


19 posted on 01/12/2008 9:51:58 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: El Gato

The AK was a stroke of luck. The previous mosin-nagant was a typical shoddy piece of work. Outside of the BMP, the Soviets had crappy equipment. What they did get right like the RPG 7 was stolen again from the Germans.


20 posted on 01/12/2008 9:54:34 AM PST by Soliton (Sarcasm is an educational tool)
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