Posted on 01/11/2008 11:16:49 AM PST by richardtavor
28 Tevet, 5768 / January 6, 2008
In the Name of the Lord, Eternal God
To The Honorable Mr. George W. Bush, President of the United States of America,
Who comes seeking the presence of the Most High God, to Jerusalem, city of God, Divinely chosen site of the Holy Temple, eternal capital of our land, "the joy of the entire earth (Psalms 48:3)," may it be rebuilt and established speedily and in our days, Amen!
Esteemed Mr. George W. Bush, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal (Ezekiel 38:1), leader of the west!
(Excerpt) Read more at templeinstitute.org ...
ג'ורג' הרברט ווקר בוש 41
ויליאם ג'פרסון קלינטון 42
ג'ורג' ווקר בוש 43
Guess that pegs the bizarre-o-meter if 44 is
מיט ראמני
Come to think of it, the mem in Magog could be represented not by the first initial of the president immediately preceeding the list (R obviously doesn’t work), but his number: 40. At least that way his good name would not be associated with Gog.
Notably Hal Lindsay (and esp. with Russia..."Russia is a Gog" from "The Late, Great Planet Earth").
I know it has been a while, but I’ve been pretty busy. Just a little in the way of additional comment regarding your post...You said:
“And the NT makes it clear that that covenant is kaput, so quit making appeals to a Christian president re. your loopy obsession with sand in the Middle East.”
If G-d’s covenant with the Jews is “kaput,” then nothing in the NT means anything. You see, the NT stands on the the shoulders of the Hebrew Scriptures - it claims that the son of Mary is the Endtimes Redeemer (sometimes called “Messiah” in current usage, though the term “Moschiach” from which it is derived means only “Annointed” in Hebrew, and there have been MANY such people - including all of the legitimate Kings of Judah through Zedikiah, and even a non-Jew, Cyrus the Great of Persia), and cites numerous passages and 2 (quite inconsistent) genealogies of Mary’s son that claim to link him back to King David (from whom, according to the Hebrew Scriptures, the Endtimes Redeemer MUST descend, bodily, via his paternal line).
If ANYTHING in the Hebrew Scriptures is demonstrably wrong, then the whole thing is wrong (because it is either literally the Word of G-d, or the inspired Word passed on through the Prophets - all of which the followers of Mary’s son acknowledge were inspired by G-d - or it is not, rendering it invalid as merely the works of men), which is to say invalid...and if THAT is true, what does it say about the NT? Simply put, the NT absolutely CANNOT, under any circumstances, be true if the Hebrew Scriptures are wrong or invalid.
So, how do we know that G-d’s covenant with the Jews is forever (i.e. NOT superceded or replaced)? Here are a bunch of quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures, attesting to the permanent nature of the Torah (courtesy of http://sagavyah.tripod.com/id9.html - I am not such a scholar as to know all of this off the top of my head. Please also note that I don’t claim to agree with anything else on this website OTHER THAN that which is written below):
_________________________
Psalm 111:5-9
“He has given food to those who revere Him;
He will remember His covenant forever.
He has made known to His people the power of His works,
In giving them the heritage of the nations.
The works of His hands are true and just;
All His precepts are certain.
They are upheld forever and ever;
They are carried out in truth and uprightness.
He has sent deliverance to His people;
He has ordained His covenant forever;
Holy and awesome is His name.”
Psalm 105:8-11, 45
He has remembered His covenant forever,
The word which He ordered to a thousand generations,
The covenant that He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.
Then He confirmed it to Jacob as a statute,
To Israel as a covenant everlasting,
Saying, “To you I shall give the land of Canaan,
As the portion of your inheritance,”
....In order that they shall keep His statutes and observe His laws,
Praise the L-RD!
Psalm 119:44 “So I will keep Your Torah - continually forever and ever.”
Psalm 119:111-112 “I have inherited Your testimonies forever, for they are the joy of my heart. For I have inclined my heart to do Your statutes forever, unto the end.”
Psalm 119:144 “Your testimonies are forever right; Grant me understanding that I may live.”
Psalm 119:152 “From long ago I have known your testimonies, that You have established them forever.”
Keep in mind - Whenever reading any verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka ‘Old Testament’), read them with the historical context in mind. For example, at the time King David wrote the Psalms, much of the rest of the Hebrew Bible was not yet written. Therefore, any references he makes should be understood in the context of those books which were already written, which he had in his hands.
Leviticus 3:17 “It is a law forever throughout your generations in all your dwelling places..”
Leviticus 6:18 “it is a permanent law throughout all your generations..”
Leviticus 6:22 “by an eternal ordinance it shall be entirely offered..”
Leviticus 7:36 “it is an eternal law for their generations.”
Leviticus 16:34 “Now this is to you an everlasting ordinance..”
Leviticus 16:29 “This is to you a permanent law..”
Leviticus 17:7 “This is to them for an everlasting law in all their generations..”
Leviticus 23:14 “is to you a perpetual ordinance in all your dwelling places throughout your generations..”
Numbers 15:15 “As for the community (of Israel), there shall be one law for you and for the one who converted and joined with you; An eternal Law throughout your generations, as you are, so shall the convert be before the ALL-TRANSCENDENT One.”
Numbers 19:21 “So it is a law forever for them..”
And on and on and on...
A prophet or teacher (or preacher) who comes along and claims to believe that the ‘Old Testament’ is the Word of G-d, but at the same time believes that the ‘Old Testament’ is no longer applicable or valid, declares that the Almighty is a liar for saying all these statements listed here. In addition to this, anyone who teaches that the ‘Old Testament’ is abolished and is no longer applicable fulfills Deuteronomy 13:5 “But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams must be put to death, because he has instructed rebellion against the L-RD your G-d.....seducing you from the way in which the L-RD your G-d commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the wickedness from among you.”
When this verse says ‘the way in which the L-rd’ commanded them to walk, it is referring to the Law of Moses, the Torah, as it plainly continues on to say:
“...heed the voice of the L-RD your Gd, by keeping all His commandments which I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the L-RD your G-d.” - Deuteronomy 13:18
“...the hidden things belong to the L-RD our G-d, but that which is revealed belongs to us and our sons forever to do all the words of this Torah.”
- Deuteronomy 29:29
See further: Why Jews don’t accept Christianity http://sagavyah.tripod.com/id2.html
“The Torah of the L-RD is whole, restoring the soul; The testimony of the L-RD is trustworthy, making the simple wise.” - Psalm 19:7
____________________________
Further, you might want to look at the following analysis dealing with G-d’s “New Covenant” with the Jews: http://mesora.org/_private/mesora.html Go to Philosophy in the upper left corner of the homepage, then to Other Religions, then to Pluralism, then to the article entitled “G-d Never Forsakes the Torah.”
Note that I am NOT stating that the moral principles stated by the NT aren’t good for followers of Mary’s son to adhere to - just that it is invalid as any kind of Divinely inspired document for Jews under the Torah, since it has many passages (esp. those “invalidating” the Torah’s laws) which contradict the laws passed down to Moses and the Prophets (as did Mary’s son). This is not meant to be an insult of any kind, merely a statement of fact. Also, under Judaism’s precepts, non-Jews can have “a place in the World to Come” (i.e. Heaven) if they merely abide by the 7 Laws of Noah. See http://www.hamikdash.com/Rambam.html
Ping for excellent summation by our friend Ancesthntr!
Ancesthntr,
I wanted to thank you for the well thought out and written response concerning G-d’s covenant. It tells me how important these things are to you that you took the time to revisit this and express your beliefs. You communicate your beliefs very well and I hope to be able to articulate a thoughtful reply in response.
I want to thank you in particular for helping me to understand Judaism a bit better. I will be reading the links you included, and especially thank you for the scripture references.
You are most correct in stating that the “NT stands on the shoulders of the Hebrew Scriptures”. All of its’ writers (with the exception of possibly Luke) were completely Jewish. One of the great tragedies that has occurred in the Christian church is the ignorance and misunderstanding of Jewish tradition and belief as it relates to our inheritance through Israel of our Jewish Messiah and the context and relevance thereof. Apart from Messianic fellowships it is difficult to define the Jewishness that undergirds ALL of our faith as believers in Yah’shua.
All that being said, I believe that Yah’shua was and is the promised Messiah and Redeemer of Israel, fullfilling the Torah (not cancelling it) and correctly interpreting its teachings (Matthew 5:17-20) and fulfilling the OT prophecies regarding Messiah and Redeemer: http://biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm#Prophecies
It is from my heart and not of duty that I feel a passion, connection with and love for Israel and her people. There is an irrevocable promise of ownership the L-rd has given to the Jewish people over the land.
Ancesthntr, please know that my prayers and support are ever with the Jewish people and Israel which are precious to me. I pray that I might be one of the “Watchman on the Wall” for her to the world during these very difficult times.
Thank you again for your eloquence.
Again, peace be with you and yours,
Flyer
I very much appreciate your kind words. Religiously, we shall have to disagree on the identity of the Redeemer. That’s fine, as long as it is done in a civil and congenial manner, as we have done and will, I trust, continue to do.
As a side note, I watched part of the 3-part CNN special on religion a couple of months back (that part which I could stomach), and watched Pastor Hagee with interest. He is, in case you don’t know, very kindly disposed toward Jews and Israel. He mentioned that he’s got a good friend who is a rabbi in San Antonio, and that one day they were discussing the Messiah. They decided that there was only one thing that was certain - one of them would be correct, and the other both wrong and very surprised at the Messiah’s identity. I think that the same holds for us.
Peace also be with you and yours.
Most definitely.:)
I have a question on the personal side. I recently discovered that my mother’s family immigrated to America from Germany somewhere between 1915-1921. (My mother didn’t know her mother because at the age of three my grandparents separated and my mother was raised by her father’s aunt.) I have just begun some research myself on my mother’s family. My mother believes they were German Jews. I found their name on a Jewish surname list (AVOTAYNU)but want to research to find out more about them. Do you have any suggestions as to any good websites or references I might find to help me? Anything would be much appreciated. Thank you.
See my PM.
I’ll look for that, I am having computer problems with the ProxySetting on my side of FREEP today. Double posting etc. Evidence that man and not G-d created this contraption! LOL.
Thanks Ancesthntr, and C from E!
ping
I had the same problem before, and I triple posted on a gun thread (which is, by necessity and rule, called a “triple tap” on those threads).
I refer to the “triple tap” as the device Bill and Hillary attach to their enemy’s electronic communication devices.:’>
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