Posted on 01/11/2008 11:16:49 AM PST by richardtavor
“...I don’t read that in the New Testament.”
Paul the apostle would be rather shocked also (Romans 11). Israel is the Lord’s “First born” (Exodus 4:22)and He is far from abandoning His original chosen people. The Old Testament and New Testaments are loaded with prophecies yet to be fulfilled concerning the Jews. Every part of scripture will come to completion according to His word and for His glory.
You can count me in as having a “loopy obsession with sand in the Middle East.” I’m assuming you mean the Nation of Israel...I won’t state all the Biblical reasons why. I won’t because I’ve found it’s a waste of time with Replacement theology types.
Anyway, setting the above aside. Only a fool would not see the need for the Jewish people to have the land that the Lord promised them. It is nothing short of a miracle that by His hand after 1900 years that the Jews who were scattered by the Romans in 70-73 A.D. leading to the diaspora which spread them throughout the world are back in their land. The diaspora lead to persecution through pogroms and culminated with the loss of 1/3 of their population in the Holocaust because of a hate of such magnitude it is incomprehensible. That ALONE is reason enough not to continue to split the land and put Jewish lives at risk and be obsessed with that “little sand in the Middle East.”
I’m sorry. I don’t think I made myself clear. I don’t believe in replacement theology. I don’t believe that God has replaced the Jewish people with “The Church”. I don’t believe that Revelations has already happened. I believe that Revelations concerns the Nation of Israel, not “The Church”. I believe in the Rapture. It’s the only thing that makes sense to me. I’ve read Romans 9-12. I think you and I agree on many things.
Sorry Yankereb,
I was directing the comment about replacement theology to MK11 and I should have made that clear. Sometimes I type faster than I can think because I feel so strongly about supporting Israel according to God’s word. God bless and keep speaking the truth.
Flyer
(Thank you Esther Ruth!)
Yankereb, I just got this off another thread relating to the subject of Israel. Eshter Ruth had posted it. It is an excellent breakdown of the Church’s history with anti-semitism and will explain the error of replacement theology which is so prevalant in many churches today (and alot on FREEP). I found it very informative and “good ammo” so to speak when debating replacement arguments:
http://therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm
God Bless and keep on praying for and blessing Israel.
The Spanish don't exist? Could have fooled me. . .
A question - with whom was the new covenant to be made?
The Temple Institute thinks Bush is Gog?
Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.
The Egypt of the Pharoahs is dust, as is the Spanish Empire. The fact that some (or even most) of the people living in those geographic locations are descended from the people who lived there thousands or hundreds of years ago is irrelevant. The regimes that persecuted the Jews are dust.
LOL back at you.
I think that Pastor John Hagee would very strongly disagree with you. Why don't you go to his website and learn a different perspective from someone who shares (at least) major portions of your faith? While I don't pretend to be any kind of authority or expert on religions of the world (esp. those not my own), the historical evidence of what has happened to those regimes that have persecuted the Jews and taken their land should at least make leaders take pause. Oh, BTW, if G-d's covenant with the Jews is gone, then why did Jesus say that it was forbidden to change one "jot or tittle" of the Torah? If it was of no importance to him, if it was a void and superceded document, why say this?
Oh, and as to "your loopy obsession with sand in the Middle East": what would you say if Mexico claimed most of the southwestern US and started sending over rockets and suicide bombers, and getting sophisticated weapons from our enemies? Methinks that you'd get a little "loopy" yourself. What if the Russians started claiming Alaska, on some specious theory that they were swindled by Seward? I guess that it just depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?
What you simply do not understand is that Jews throughout history have had ONLY that little patch of land to call their own, to be relatively safe and secure in. Why is it that when Jews seek to defend their title to that land there is such incredible consternation? Why can't Jews simply be left the eff alone, why does the rest of the world have such a problem with that?
Oh, and if G-d's covenant with the Jews is gone, then why did Jesus say that it was forbidden to change one "jot or tittle" of the Torah? If it was of no importance to him, why say this?
Amen, my friend!
Rosh is hebrew for “head.” In Ezekiel, he speaks of the leader of the West. Many prophecy teachers have tried to force the term “rosh” into Russia, to fit their geographical impressions. Meshek is commonly misinterpreted as Moscow (which is the english version.) Actually, in Russian it is Mockva. Ezekiel never names the US, China, Japan or Germany—however, a lot of teachers have forced a modern geopgraphical interpretion.
Thank you for your thoughts - I agree. From what I can tell, modern eschatology teachers seem to all be quoting each other on this one, and that their view is based on little real fact. In fact, to suggest that we can take a Hebrew word and extrapolate it to mean one that sounds similar in English is downright silly.
With regard to the chapters in Ezekiel - you said that he speaks of the leader of the West. How do you determine that, when the text tells of his coming from the “far north”?
In Ezekiel’s day, he might have been referring to what became Greece or Turkey. I have read somethings that suggested just that. However, G-d could have certainly inspired Ezekiel to see a vision of what became Russia.
You mentioned Matthew 5:17-20. Good point. Jesus’ top priority and ministry was to his brothers the Jews. He wept over Jerusalem for their lack of belief. He kept the Jewish festivals, he was 100% Jewish. The book of Matthew is written specifically to Jews. He certainly placed importance on His people and the nation.
It is embarassing for me as a Christian, and does not honor the Lord to see anyone acting in a superior manner when we are told to be humble (Romans 11) because we are the ones which are grafted into the olive tree and adopted sons and daughters of Yahweh and we are warned to not have false pride.
Ancesthntr, I am sorry if someone claims to be a brother or sister of mine who so blatantly disregards the scriptures and offends in this manner. Thank you for your thoughts and peace be with you.
(Just wanted to add Gentile Christians are addressed in Romans 11 concerning their salvation and what their attitude should be.):)
While I myself sometimes cringe at what others with whom I am associated say (sometimes fellow Jews, sometimes others), and I therefor understand your sentiments, it wasn't necessary for you to apologize like that (though it is appreciated). I know that lots of your fellow believers understand things as you do, and I've proudly attended the Night to Honor Israel at Pastor Hagee's church for the last 2 years. There are LOTS of good people out there of every faith, and a few that need a bit more improvement than the average person (and we all could do with a healthy dose of humility and self-examination, followed by improving our actions and words).
Peace be with you, as well.
Thank you for your reply. Israel has many friends at this time and I hope we can all make a difference in whatever small way possible. Psalm 122. :)
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