Replies

Response to #426:

Me: has the JST been "canonized?"

You: By the LDS church, Yes.

BYU prof Stephen Robinson: First of all, the JST is not canonized Scripture even for the Latter-day Sints, JST Genesis 1-6 and Matthew 24, which are both found in the Pearl of Great Price, excepted. The JST is not the LDS version of the Bible--the KJV is and always has been. (Robinson & Craig Blomberg, How Wide the Divide, IVP, p. 64)

Hmm. Who are we to believe? (You or a BYU prof?)

Are you simply mistaken, DU? Or is the BYU prof?

Me:That's like saying We also know he was not into a system of Christianity, because the word "Christianity" had not been invented yet...

You: Christianity has existed since before the world was.

Thanks for confirming my exact point. Yes, "Christianity" has existed since before the world was--even though it was not a word on the minds of the New Testament authors or a word amongst its pages; it had not yet been invented. So is also true of the Trinity, which also existed since before the world was--even though this specific word was not amongst the New Testament pages.

We also know he was not a trinitarian, because the trinity had not been invented yet...

That's like saying We also know hnow he didn't believe in an "age of accountability," because the phrase "age of accountability" is not in the Bible & had not been invented yet...

That's like saying We also know he didn't believe in a prohibition against "abortion," because the word "abortion" is not in the Bible & had not been invented yet...

That's like saying We also know he didn't "eschatology" was worthy of the New Testament, because the word "eschatology" is not in the Bible & had not been invented yet...

That's like saying We also know that "soteriology" or "hamartiology" wouldn't dawn the doors of New Testament writers because the words "soteriology" and "hamartiology" are not in the Bible & had not been invented yet...

Jesus was not a monothiest, he was a himself a God, and he obeyed his Father, who was a God. Yet, he and the Father were so close that they were and Are one God. Monothiesim is not a philosophy he worried about.

So I guess only Isaiah, most quoted Biblical prophet in the Book of Mormon, was a "philosophical monotheist," eh?

Here, let me help you rewrite the book of Isaiah to match your proper polytheistic philosophy (bold faced words are the changed words to more accurately reflect Mormonology-Smithology):

...before me there was a council of gods formed, plus millions shall there be after me. (Isaiah 43:10, Mormon Inspired Version)

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the J in the Alphabet of gods, but I'm not the last; and beside me are a whole series of gods. (Isaiah 44:6, Mormon Inspired Version, see also Pearl of Great Price, 1:6, Mormon Inspired Version)

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is (and it's a bit crowded up here on Kolob Heights); I know plenty (Isaiah 44:8, Mormon Inspired Version)

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by divine committee; (Isaiah 44:24, Mormon Inspired Version)

for I am God, and my vacancy sign is up; I am God, and all kinds of divine vacancies are open, (Is. 45:5; 46:9, Mormon Inspired Version...Note: Because of the sheer high volume of god positions open, God put an extra "ad" in both chapters 45 & 46)

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there are as many of us as sands on the all the earths. (Is. 45:22, Mormon Inspired Version)

The president of the church is a term reflecting the requirement in the USA for a church to be incorporated as a tax exempt corporation, all the buildings are for example owned by the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.Inc Sorry it's all in caps because the charter has it all in caps, there is also a corporation for the presiding bishopric, and a corporation for the welfare arm of the church. Calling him the president of the church is merely a reflection of the reality that he is in charge of the corporation that runs the earthly church...

No...the whole flow & structure of the Mormon church is just one commercial-like enterprise...A forced-fee structure of 10% tithe (or no temple recommend which translates both into being shut out of the temple + no godhood for you); whereas no one single person is the author of the Bible, Doctrine & Covenants 24:1 tells us exactly who the Book of Mormon author is: "Behold, thou wast called and chosen to write the Book of Mormon... ("Revelation" of July 1830); whereas no one single person has copyright of the Bible...the copyright of the Book of Mormon was secured in Smith's name; and even now, just about all of the LDS general authorities are businessmen.

If the LDS church is a "restoration" of the original church--and if Jesus had 24 apostles--12 in the Bible & 12 in the Book of Mormon Americas--why don't LDS have "24" if it's a true "restoration?"

Hmm. Who are we to believe? (You or a BYU prof?)

THe Articles of Faith #8

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

That makes the Bible, with some minor room for clarification, Cannon. I don't care what some Professor at BYU says he is not supposed to be speaking for the church. The questions is, what is his source, can he back it up with more than his opinion?

The LDS Church prints the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants in a single binding so that the "SCRIPTURES" can be joined together in our hand. This guy is off the mark.

Are you simply mistaken, DU? Or is the BYU prof?

He is, I am backed up by the church, If I was not, I would be wrong. IT's not about me or him, it's what the church has Cannonized.

I Said: Christianity has existed since before the world was.

U Said: Thanks for confirming my exact point. Yes, "Christianity" has existed since before the world was--even though it was not a word on the minds of the New Testament authors or a word amongst its pages; it had not yet been invented. So is also true of the Trinity, which also existed since before the world was--even though this specific word was not amongst the New Testament pages.

Christianity has existed since before Adam for His calling was before the world. The trinity as a Doctrine, or Creed was made the "Doctrine" of the Catholic church in 325 AD. God and Christ existed before and will exist after the trinity as doctrine has fallen to more knowledge. To equate the two is to compare an essential part of the plan of salvation to a creed adopted at a point in time. Jesus was known by name long before he was born, the trinity was never discussed at all in the Bible. The Trinity is the embodiment of an interpretation, not the embodiment of God. The Trinity as a creed conflicts with he Bible in many places. The Bible never conflicts with Christ being our savior. Your contrived comparison is exposed.

As for things Not being defined in the Bible. It's simple. We believe in continuing revelation with Prophets who speak for God, you don't believe in modern day prophets. Therefore it is OK for us to have modern revelation, but not OK for you to have similar additions, for you don't believe in continuing revelation.

I Said: Jesus was not a monothiest, he was a himself a God, and he obeyed his Father, who was a God. Yet, he and the Father were so close that they were and Are one God. Monotheism is not a philosophy he worried about.

I Said: So I guess only Isaiah, most quoted Biblical prophet in the Book of Mormon, was a "philosophical monotheiest," eh?

You obviously did not understand what I was talking about, and I'm OK with that.

No...the whole flow & structure of the Mormon church is just one commercial-like enterprise...

The Corporate entity is forced by the US government, all churches in the USA have one or they get taxed like Joe citizen, because they are owned by Joe citizen.

A forced-fee structure of 10% tithe (or no temple recommend which translates both into being shut out of the temple + no godhood for you);

No one is forced to pay a tithe and it's a Biblical command. (Why aren't other churches following the Bible?)

whereas no one single person is the author of the Bible, Doctrine & Covenants 24:1 tells us exactly who the Book of Mormon author is: "Behold, thou wast called and chosen to write the Book of Mormon... ("Revelation" of July 1830);

Yes, Joseph had the Copyright on the Book of Mormon which was transferred to the LDS church.

whereas no one single person has copyright of the Bible...the copyright of the Book of Mormon was secured in Smith's name; and even now, just about all of the LDS general authorities are businessmen.

Yes, you had to make some money to be able to give the service they give.

You might also be interested in this:

Is the Bible copyrighted?

Ron
Asheville, North Carolina

Dear Ron:
There are no original Biblical copyright holders. The Bible was written by roughly 40 or so people over the span of 1,500 years (from around 1450 B.C. until A.D. 100). It was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek.
Many modern translations of the Bible are copyrighted. While several of these Bible copyright holders offer their translations online and allow people to make attributed quotes, they would probably frown upon someone printing their translation and trying to sell it. Besides, since a Bible quote in English is by definition a translation, it's good practice to attribute the source.
As we quickly discovered, copyright law is a complicated affair. Many books become public domain 70 years after the author's death. Of course, it goes without saying that the Bible isn't your average book, so we suggest you check with the publisher. However, the Bible Gateway notes that many versions are in the public domain including the King James Bible.

I know that the addition of Footnotes to the JST allows the LDS church to copyright the Bible we are printing.

If the LDS church is a "restoration" of the original church--and if Jesus had 24 apostles--12 in the Bible & 12 in the Book of Mormon Americas--why don't LDS have "24" if it's a true "restoration?"

Actually, there were replacements of the apostles in Jerusalem, so you can make the same argument for more than 24 apostles, hey why not it would be just as wrong.

We have 12 apostles, because every time Jesus set up his church, he called 12 apostles. We are a restoration, so Jesus called 12 apostles.