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To: Colofornian; Godzilla
So...frankly, DU, your response re: McConkie is disengenous. It only explains McConkie's 1958 version of "Mormon Doctrine." Anything republished since then--with FULL APPROVAL OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY--and anything that's remained in there in its last reprint--was done with full First Presidency & General Authority oversight.

Histronics aside, the church cannot stop anyone from publishing a book.

The Church can refuse to cannonize a book.

Mormon doctrine has been brought up by many people through letters tot he first presidency as a candidate for cannonization, the church has refused to Cannonize it, Which means they see some problems with it. What more do you want?

Oh yeah, justification for your actions here by "proving" the church not to be true. Well, your not going to prove truth to be error, so give up.

McConkie as a solo target applies only to 1958. Any critical assessments or putdowns of republished books of "Mormon Doctrine" since then is an outright slam against the entire First Presidency & General Authorities & the editors & publishers of the book. Many authors make as you call it "factual errors"--those are fixed. I know many such "errors" in McConkie's '58 version were "fixed." But if ensuing "factual errors" haven't been "fixed"--and you imply that you openly acknowledge that's the case--then it's not just a one-man doctrinal show.

Why? When did the personal private property of Bruce R McConkie pass into the property holdings of the church? The Church does not publish Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft does. Bruc's children hold the Copyright and get paid when the book is repreinted. It's not churhc property, get it? I can see just how you would react if we marched down there and say tried to stop them from publishing, maybe you want us to destroy the printing press? (you are not being reasonable here)

Is the first presidency to excommunicate Bruce because he says some things in a book that are not material to salvation, that are incorrect? How about teaching in Sunday school, if I make a mistake there will I be excommunicated? Private conversations? You guys are saying we should take the very actions you would denounce if we did.

So you need to come clean. Does your assessment above apply only to McConkie's 1958 version, or ensuing versions as well?

Absolutely! It's not Cannon, it's not authoritative, it is good for education and discussion, but it's not scripture.

When will you guys get it that I am actually saying what I mean?

Go with God CF, I hope you have a good day.
424 posted on 01/17/2008 11:59:18 AM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Histronics aside, the church cannot stop anyone from publishing a book.

That's precisely what the LDS Church did when McConkie wanted to republished "Mormon Doctrine" with the fixed errors pointed out to him by the First Presidency.

As a Wikipedia entry states: The January 8, 1960 office notes of LDS "prophet" David O. McKay reflect that: We [the First Presidency of the Church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, ‘Mormon Doctrine’ recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition."

When did the personal private property of Bruce R McConkie pass into the property holdings of the church?

Listen, General Authorities can't slap on a title like "Mormon Doctrine" & expect other LDS General Authorities to check off on it as a one-man enterprise. And this is exactly why, as Dennis B. Horne wrote in the book, Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings (Eborn Books, 2000), that on January 5, 1959, Apostle Marion G. Romney of the First Presidency was assigned by President David O. McKay to read & report on McConkie's book. His report was delivered on January 28 which mainly, according to Horne, "dealt with Elder McConkie's usage of forceful, blunt language; some strongly worded statements about ambiguous doctrine and matters of opinion; and the overall authoritative tone throughout the book, though in general Elder Romney had a high regard for Mormon Doctrine and felt it filled an evident need remarkably well." The report concluded "notwithstanding its many commendable and valuable features and the author’s assumption of ‘sole and full responsibility’ for it, its nature and scope and the authoritative tone of the style in which it is written pose the question as to the propriety of the author’s attempting such a project without assignment and supervision from him whose right and responsibility it is to speak for the Church on 'Mormon Doctrine.'"

The Church does not publish Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft does. Bruc's children hold the Copyright and get paid when the book is repreinted. It's not churhc property, get it?

Right. (And next you'll try to tell me that the LDS First Presidency had "no role at all" in the republishing of "Mormon Doctrine" as it was republished in 1966). But according to Deseret Book Publishing, owned by the LDS Church, you'd be flat out wrong & persistently deceitful if you tried. According to the book, The Bruce R. McConkie Story: Reflections of a Son, a biography written by his son, Joseph Fielding McConkie (Deseret Book Publishers, 2003):

On July 5, 1966, President McKay invited Elder McConkie into his office and gave approval for the book to be reprinted if appropriate changes were made and approved. Elder [Spencer W.] Kimball [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] was assigned to be Elder McConkie’s mentor in making those changes....My father told me that President McKay had so directed him. In addition to that, I am in possession of handwritten papers by my father affirming that direction.

Mormon doctrine has been brought up by many people through letters tot he first presidency as a candidate for cannonization, the church has refused to Cannonize it, Which means they see some problems with it. What more do you want?

Why, silly me. Here, we have an Amos 3:7 LDS "prophet" in 1966 clearly directing McConkie that "if appropriate changes were made and approved," he could republish "Mormon Doctrine" in 1966. What? Did McConkie shun McKay's directive to make those changes? What? Did McConkie ignore the then to-be future LDS "prophet" mentoring provided by Spencer W. Kimball, who was assigned to him by McKay re: special "changes" project for the to-be republished book? Is this what you're seriously claiming? That the First Presidency, that McKay, that Romney, that Kimball...2 of them LDS "prophets"...had literally no operative oversight available to them to fix those "problems" you refer to between 1960 and 1966? The First Presidency was powerless & totally handcuffed to effect gentle guidance upon an apostle of the Church?

Is the first presidency to excommunicate Bruce because he says some things in a book that are not material to salvation, that are incorrect?

Again, you seem to keep pretending that McConkie published a 1958 book, and then a 20-year gap like the Nixon 18-minute gap in the tapes sets in. Your reference here applies only to his '58 version. The fact is Romney reviewed the book in '59-'60. McKay told McConkie changes needed to be made pre '66 republishing. Kimball was assigned to the specific project as a mentor to ensure that took place. And then one more slight revision was done in 1978.

Had the First Presidency--either at publishing time in 1966 or 1978--had as much heartburn over McConkie's book as what I've seen from LDS grassroots apologists (overdone bosom burning?), there's no way the book either (a) would have gone to print; or (b) would have gone to print as is.

What? Are you seriously & continually trying to tell us all that the LDS First Presidency had less evaluative & review & oversight power of this book in 1966 and 1978 than any given editors & publishers of any book? Your arguments in this area are as incredulous as they could be given the sheer hierarchical nature of the LDS Church in that era!

430 posted on 01/17/2008 10:40:54 PM PST by Colofornian
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