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To: DelphiUser
Histronics aside, the church cannot stop anyone from publishing a book.

That's precisely what the LDS Church did when McConkie wanted to republished "Mormon Doctrine" with the fixed errors pointed out to him by the First Presidency.

As a Wikipedia entry states: The January 8, 1960 office notes of LDS "prophet" David O. McKay reflect that: We [the First Presidency of the Church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, ‘Mormon Doctrine’ recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition."

When did the personal private property of Bruce R McConkie pass into the property holdings of the church?

Listen, General Authorities can't slap on a title like "Mormon Doctrine" & expect other LDS General Authorities to check off on it as a one-man enterprise. And this is exactly why, as Dennis B. Horne wrote in the book, Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings (Eborn Books, 2000), that on January 5, 1959, Apostle Marion G. Romney of the First Presidency was assigned by President David O. McKay to read & report on McConkie's book. His report was delivered on January 28 which mainly, according to Horne, "dealt with Elder McConkie's usage of forceful, blunt language; some strongly worded statements about ambiguous doctrine and matters of opinion; and the overall authoritative tone throughout the book, though in general Elder Romney had a high regard for Mormon Doctrine and felt it filled an evident need remarkably well." The report concluded "notwithstanding its many commendable and valuable features and the author’s assumption of ‘sole and full responsibility’ for it, its nature and scope and the authoritative tone of the style in which it is written pose the question as to the propriety of the author’s attempting such a project without assignment and supervision from him whose right and responsibility it is to speak for the Church on 'Mormon Doctrine.'"

The Church does not publish Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft does. Bruc's children hold the Copyright and get paid when the book is repreinted. It's not churhc property, get it?

Right. (And next you'll try to tell me that the LDS First Presidency had "no role at all" in the republishing of "Mormon Doctrine" as it was republished in 1966). But according to Deseret Book Publishing, owned by the LDS Church, you'd be flat out wrong & persistently deceitful if you tried. According to the book, The Bruce R. McConkie Story: Reflections of a Son, a biography written by his son, Joseph Fielding McConkie (Deseret Book Publishers, 2003):

On July 5, 1966, President McKay invited Elder McConkie into his office and gave approval for the book to be reprinted if appropriate changes were made and approved. Elder [Spencer W.] Kimball [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] was assigned to be Elder McConkie’s mentor in making those changes....My father told me that President McKay had so directed him. In addition to that, I am in possession of handwritten papers by my father affirming that direction.

Mormon doctrine has been brought up by many people through letters tot he first presidency as a candidate for cannonization, the church has refused to Cannonize it, Which means they see some problems with it. What more do you want?

Why, silly me. Here, we have an Amos 3:7 LDS "prophet" in 1966 clearly directing McConkie that "if appropriate changes were made and approved," he could republish "Mormon Doctrine" in 1966. What? Did McConkie shun McKay's directive to make those changes? What? Did McConkie ignore the then to-be future LDS "prophet" mentoring provided by Spencer W. Kimball, who was assigned to him by McKay re: special "changes" project for the to-be republished book? Is this what you're seriously claiming? That the First Presidency, that McKay, that Romney, that Kimball...2 of them LDS "prophets"...had literally no operative oversight available to them to fix those "problems" you refer to between 1960 and 1966? The First Presidency was powerless & totally handcuffed to effect gentle guidance upon an apostle of the Church?

Is the first presidency to excommunicate Bruce because he says some things in a book that are not material to salvation, that are incorrect?

Again, you seem to keep pretending that McConkie published a 1958 book, and then a 20-year gap like the Nixon 18-minute gap in the tapes sets in. Your reference here applies only to his '58 version. The fact is Romney reviewed the book in '59-'60. McKay told McConkie changes needed to be made pre '66 republishing. Kimball was assigned to the specific project as a mentor to ensure that took place. And then one more slight revision was done in 1978.

Had the First Presidency--either at publishing time in 1966 or 1978--had as much heartburn over McConkie's book as what I've seen from LDS grassroots apologists (overdone bosom burning?), there's no way the book either (a) would have gone to print; or (b) would have gone to print as is.

What? Are you seriously & continually trying to tell us all that the LDS First Presidency had less evaluative & review & oversight power of this book in 1966 and 1978 than any given editors & publishers of any book? Your arguments in this area are as incredulous as they could be given the sheer hierarchical nature of the LDS Church in that era!

430 posted on 01/17/2008 10:40:54 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
U Said: That's precisely what the LDS Church did when McConkie wanted to republished "Mormon Doctrine" with the fixed errors pointed out to him by the First Presidency.

So you make my point that the church was upset at the errors, and it's not approved by the church. The church used strong language to encourage but did not have the power to compel.

I Said: The Church does not publish Mormon Doctrine, Bookcraft does. Bruce's children hold the Copyright and get paid when the book is reprinted. It's not some property, get it?

U Said: Right. (And next you'll try to tell me that the LDS First Presidency had "no role at all" in the republishing of "Mormon Doctrine" as it was republished in 1966). But according to Deseret Book Publishing, owned by the LDS Church, you'd be flat out wrong & persistently deceitful if you tried. According to the book, The Bruce R. McConkie Story: Reflections of a Son, a biography written by his son, Joseph Fielding McConkie (Deseret Book Publishers, 2003):

The LDS church presidency can encourage, and coerce and ask and if you are a Good member and you are trying to publish a book that helps the church, you'll listen. However, the church cannot compel. The church cannot even excommunicate for publishing a book that talks about things that are not doctrine.

Did the Church leadership say to him "At least fix these things..." I am sure they did. Did they fix everything? No. Could they force him to, no. But would a good member, or GA disobey? Probably not. Does that make it condoned by the church, no.

U Said: What? Are you seriously & continually trying to tell us all that the LDS First Presidency had less evaluative & review & oversight power of this book in 1966 and 1978 than any given editors & publishers of any book? Your arguments in this area are as incredulous as they could be given the sheer hierarchical nature of the LDS Church in that era!

Lets review the actual record:

When the First Presidency met with McConkie about their decision, he responded, "I am amenable to whatever you Brethren want. I will do exactly what you want. I will be as discreet and as wise as I can." (Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings.)
So, as I said, the church could not compel him, but could ask, and he could agree. The Church did not have control, but most certainly had influence. You might also want to note, that Bruce R McConkie, stated that this was his work , and not the Church's.
In 1958 McConkie, who was at the time a member of the First Council of the Seventy of the LDS Church, published a book entitled Mormon Doctrine: A Compendium of the Gospel, which he described as "the first major attempt to digest, explain, and analyze all of the important doctrines of the kingdom" and "the first extensive compendium of the whole gospel--the first attempt to publish an encyclopedic commentary covering the whole field of revealed religion." He included a disclaimer that he alone was responsible for the doctrinal and scriptural interpretations, a practice unusual at the time. (Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings.)
David O mckay said:
we shall speak to the Twelve at our meeting in the temple tomorrow, and tell them that Brother McConkie's book is not approved as an authoritative book, (Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings.)
So clearly, my statement is correct when I said the Book was no cannon, was not considered authoritative, but it was, being written by a GA a good study guide.

In short, it's a really good book to read for additional study, but it's not scripture.

BTW, since I am distantly related to Bruce R McConkie, and since I know some of his children, I just might have an insight here, and yes, my mother has a first edition copy of his book and I have read it.

I nominate the "Why don't you have 24 apostles" question for the Dumb post of the thread award.
437 posted on 01/18/2008 12:43:40 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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