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Evangelicals Against Mitt
The American Spectator ^ | 1/3/2008 | Carrie Sheffield

Posted on 01/08/2008 4:09:13 PM PST by tantiboh

Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.

The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.

...

THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.

...

ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."

...

Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.

...

The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.

Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: election; ia2008; lds; mormon; romney
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To: RobbyS

By “elites” you mean Romney ???

But I though that was part of his charm ?????


961 posted on 01/25/2008 11:44:00 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: DarthVader
Stop trying to make your movement out to be holy

But it is...

as it was founded by an insane, polygamist, racial bigot one Joseph Smith who ended up being killed as an irrational animal just as 2 Peter 2 prophesied.

So, how did Peter die? (He was martyred in Rome with Paul), James? (Put to the sword) Phillip (martyred), I could keep going, but thy all pretty much died nasty deaths (except John) was all that in fulfillment of 2 peter 2?

Those who restore the Church seldom do "well" by it, instead the forces of evil kill them.

There is also a enough info from ex-Mormons proving the gross hypocrisy within LDS.

I suppose you also take sides in divorces, LOL!
962 posted on 01/25/2008 11:44:43 AM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture: The Articles of Faith
by Marvin W. Cowan

Drawing lines between numbered dots on a paper will create a picture that previously wasn’t visible. In a similar way, when a questionable issue is connected to the historical events related to it, they help clarify it. For example, many who read the 13 “Articles of Faith” of the Mormon Church see no problem with the first Article which says, “We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Therefore, I want to connect some “dots” or events to that document that should help clarify it. In 1842 John Wentworth, the editor of the Chicago Democrat, asked Joseph Smith to write a brief history and doctrinal statement of the Mormon Church for Mr. Bastow who wanted to include it in the history of New Hampshire that he was writing. Smith wrote the article and on March 1, 1842 he also published it in Times and Seasons, a Mormon publication in Nauvoo, Illinois where the Mormon Church had its headquarters. “The Articles of Faith” was Smith’s statement of Mormon beliefs in his letter to John Wentworth. They were later published in the first edition of the Pearl of Great Price in 1851 and have been in every edition since then, which means that Mormons consider them to be scripture. The “Articles of Faith” are essentially the same today as they were when Smith first published them.
But what did Smith mean by the words he used in the first Article of Faith? Remember, Joseph Smith’s letter to John Wentworth contained both Smith’s history of Mormonism and his “Articles of Faith” and they were published together in the same edition of the Times and Seasons on March 1, 1842. The Wentworth letter in 1842 was the first time Smith published the story that he was about 14 years old when he had a vision of two personages who told him that “all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines, and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom.” Smith then said, “And I was expressly commanded ‘to go not after them,’ at the same time receiving a promise that the fulness of the gospel should at some future time be made known unto me.”

In the next edition of the Times and Seasons on March 15, 1842, Joseph Smith notified his subscribers that, “This paper commences my editorial career, I alone stand responsible for it, and shall do for all papers having my signature henceforward.” In this issue Smith began a series of articles that contained a more complete history of Mormonism. The official First Vision story in “Joseph Smith-History” in the Pearl of Great Price came from that series of articles. The “two personages” aren’t identified in Smith’s letter to John Wentworth, but in the official version, one personage pointed to the other and said, “This is my beloved Son, hear Him,” which is the reason Mormons believe the Personages were God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. In the official version, Smith asked them which church to join and said, “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all of their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...”(JS-Hist. 1:19). It is from Smith’s “First Vision” story that Mormonism developed its doctrine of a “universal apostasy” which teaches no true church, gospel or Christians were on earth for many centuries until Smith restored them in 1830. If all of the creeds or beliefs of all other churches were an abomination in the sight of God, then surely Joseph Smith’s first Article of Faith about God could not mean that he believed the same thing as all the corrupt professors in the churches that were all wrong! It was the same letter to John Wentworth in which Smith said two Personages told him that all churches were teaching “incorrect doctrine” which also contained his “Articles of Faith.”

But there is more evidence that shows Joseph Smith’s first Article of Faith does not mean that Mormons believe what Christians believe about God. The same edition of the Times and Seasons that has Joseph Smith’s letter to John Wentworth in it also has a picture of Facsimile No. 1 from the “Book of Abraham” on the front page. The first article in that edition was entitled, “A Translation,” and was the first part of Smith’s “translation” of the “Book of Abraham.” The rest of the “Book of Abraham” was published in the next issue of Times and Seasons on March 15,1842. The “translation” printed in those two editions of Times and Seasons is now published as the “Book of Abraham” in the Pearl of Great Price and is Mormon scripture. But, the “Book of Abraham” contains a very different view of God than what the Bible teaches.

The “Book of Abraham,” says in chapter 4:1-4, “And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth. 2. And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters. 3. And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light. 4. And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.” Nothing has been added or changed in this quotation. The same edition of the Times and Seasons that published the first half of the “Book of Abraham” also contained Smith’s letter to John Wentworth with his “Articles of Faith” and his statement that “all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines.” So, there is a direct link between Smith’s first “Article of Faith” and those “incorrect doctrines” of other churches as well as “the Gods” in the “Book of Abraham.”

We will continue our discussion of the “Articles of Faith” next month. For those who want to read more on this subject, The Articles of Faith by LDS Apostle James Talmage is published by the Mormon Church and elaborates on the subject. The Christian reader will see many things in that book that are not a part of Christianity.


963 posted on 01/25/2008 11:46:26 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: Jo Nuvark; tantiboh

Don’t worry, Tantiboh, they think the Catholics and Jews are going to hell, too. CTR forever!


964 posted on 01/25/2008 11:46:39 AM PST by Saundra Duffy
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture:
The Artilces of Faith, Part II
by Marvin W. Cowan

In our last article we said that the 13 Articles of Faith are Mormon scripture in the Pearl of Great Price. The first Article declares, “We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” While the words sound like a Christian statement, the Mormon interpretation is quite different because of the historical setting from which they came as well as because of what Mormon scripture and Mormon prophets have taught. Keep in mind that Mormons have four books of scripture called the “Standard Works,” plus a living prophet, who according to Ezra Taft Benson, the 13th LDS prophet, “is more important to us than the Standard Works” (Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophets, p. 2). Mormonism has other books of scripture and a living prophet because they believe and teach things that are not in the Bible!
We previously mentioned that Joseph Smith wrote a letter to John Wentworth which included both the Articles of Faith and his “First Vision” story where he claimed that two heavenly personages appeared to him and told him that “all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines.” He published that letter in the LDS Times and Seasons newspaper in Nauvoo, IL on March 1, 1842. In the next issue of that newspaper on March 15, 1842, Smith published an expanded version of his First Vision in which he said he asked the two personages which church he should join. He said, “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all of their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt.…” That is now Mormon scripture in the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19.

Mormons teach that God the Father and Jesus Christ were the two Personages who told Smith that “all the churches were wrong and all their creeds (doctrines) were an abomination.” Therefore, it would be a contradiction for the Articles of Faith to contain the same doctrines that were condemned by the Lord in Joseph Smith’s First Vision! Another thing that shows that the first Article of Faith was not meant to teach the same concept about God that other churches had is that the same two issues of the Times and Seasons mentioned above also contained Smith’s complete “translation” of the Book of Abraham, which is now Mormon scripture in the Pearl of Great Price. Abraham, chapters 4 and 5 teach that “the Gods” created the earth and everything in it. Thus, when the first Article of Faith says, “We believe in God the Eternal Father” it must be understood in that historical context.

But the meaning of the first Article of Faith is stated quite clearly by Mormon scripture and Mormon prophets. Doctrine and Covenants Sec. 130:22 declares, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” Why does Mormon scripture teach that God the Father has a tangible body of flesh and bones? It is because of what Joseph Smith, the founding prophet, taught. He said, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!... I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see... he was once a man like us, yea, God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did and I will show it from the Bible” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346). From this teaching of Joseph Smith, Lorenzo Snow, the 5th LDS prophet, formed the familiar LDS couplet: “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” On page 29 of the 1998-99 LDS Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society study guide entitled, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Brigham Young, Brigham also taught that “God, the Father, was once a man on another planet who passed through the ordeals we are now passing through.…” That should raise questions like, “If God was once a man on an earth, was there another ‘God the Father’ while he was a man?” According to Joseph Smith, there was! He said, “If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John (the apostle) discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also” (Ibid. p. 373). If that is true, what does the first Article of Faith mean when it says, “We believe in God the Eternal Father?”

Mormon scripture and their leaders interpret the words they use in such a way that they don’t see contradictions. They see no problem in teaching that God the “Eternal Father” was once a man because “Eternal” is one of the names of God. LDS Apostle, James Talmage wrote, “Endless and Eternal are among His (God’s) names...” (Articles of Faith, p. 146). And Joseph Smith declared, “We say that God himself is a self-existing being.… Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles...The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself.… There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal (co-eternal) with our Father in heaven” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 352-353). Milton R. Hunter, under the direction of the LDS General Authorities, also wrote, “...the center of the personality of man is an uncreated, eternally existent, indestructible entity. He–for that entity is a person—...is eternal as God is; co-existent, in fact, with God” (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 126). Doctrine and Covenants 93:29 says much the same thing: “Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” Thus, Mormonism teaches: God became God the same way good Mormons can become Gods; “Eternal” is one of the names of God and He is eternal in the same way that man is eternal; and He is called “Father” because He is the personal Father of the spirits of all men in the pre-mortal spirit world as LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote in Mormon Doctrine on pages 84 and 236. Now you can read the first Article of Faith with real understanding!

We will continue our discussion of the Articles of Faith next time. For those who want to read more on this subject we recommend our book Mormon Claims Answered. Most of the chapters begin by quoting one or more of the Articles of Faith and then discusses the meaning.

Apologetics Authors

Dr. James Bjornstad
Mrs. Lorri MacGregor
Mr. Marvin Cowan
Dr. John Ankerberg
Dr. John Weldon


965 posted on 01/25/2008 11:47:28 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture
The Articles of Faith, Part III
by Marvin W. Cowan

Our last two articles showed that Joseph Smith wrote the “Articles of Faith” along with a short history of Mormonism as one article. In that short history, Smith claimed the Lord told him existing churches “were all wrong,” that “all their creeds (doctrines) were an abomination” and “that those professors (believers) were all corrupt” (see Pearl of Great Price, Jos. Smith-Hist. 1:19). That is the reason Joseph Smith and his successors claim that a “universal apostasy” took place shortly after the death of the Lord’s apostles and it lasted until Joseph Smith restored the truth on April 6, 1830. Therefore, even though Mormonism claims to be a Christian church, it would be a contradiction for Smith’s “Articles of Faith” to teach the same doctrines that Smith claims the Lord condemned in all of the false, apostate churches! We previously showed that the words in the first LDS “Article of Faith” mean something very different to Mormons than they do to historic or biblical Christians.
The second “Article of Faith” declares, “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.” But what does that mean? It infers that other churches teach that men are punished for “Adam’s transgression.” However, the Bible does not say that men will be punished for what Adam did, nor do Bible believing Christians teach that. That is a “straw man” that LDS leaders have set up so they could knock it down to show how wrong others are. But, Paul did write in Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned.” That text declares that sin came into the world through one man (Adam) and it brought death with it. As sons of Adam we all die because we are children of disobedience (Eph. 2:1-3) having inherited a nature that sins. Thus, the Bible says, “there is none righteous, no, not one” (Rom. 3:10-12; Ps. 14:1-3) because “all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23; 5:12). That is why we need a Savior. Even before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the angel said to Joseph, “Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21). Notice that the angel did not say, “He shall save His people from Adam’s sin.” Paul declared, “Christ died for our sins” (I Cor. 15:3). And Peter wrote, “(Christ) who His own self bore our sins in His own body on the tree...” (I Pet. 2:25). John also said, “And ye know that he (Christ) was manifested to take away our sins” (I John 3:5). Christ does take away our sins when we repent and believe that “his blood cleanses us from all sin” (I John 1:7). If we do not repent and put our trust in Christ, we will be punished for our own sins, but not Adam’s sin.

Mormons don’t believe Adam sinned in the Garden of Eden anyway. The 10th LDS Prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, “I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin...It is true, the Lord warned Adam and Eve that to partake of the fruit they would transgress a law, and this happened. But it is not always a sin to transgress a law” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 114). Gospel Principles is a manual for instructing new members of the LDS Church in their beliefs. It was published by the LDS Church and copyrighted by the LDS President and Prophet himself, so it is reliable information. It says, “Some people believe that Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing” (p. 31). The April 1990 Ensign magazine for LDS adults declares: “Adam and Eve’s transgression was not really a wrongful act of ‘sin’ as we usually understand that term. While their choice violated the command against partaking of the fruit, that same choice was necessary to enable their obedience to the command to have children. Their ‘transgression’ was thus a painful but correct, even eternally glorious, choice” (p. 9). LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie also wrote, “It is possible to transgress a law without committing a sin, as in the case of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 804). But the Bible declares, “Sin is the transgression of the law” (I John 3:4). Therefore, if Adam and Eve “transgressed a law,” they sinned! Furthermore, when Romans 5:12 declares, “by one man sin entered into the world,” the context says that “one man” was named “Adam” in verse 14. So, how could sin enter the world by Adam if he did not sin?

The second Article of Faith says Mormons believe that “men will be punished for their own sins....” However, that doesn’t mean they believe what the Bible teaches about “eternal punishment” even though the Book of Mormon teaches it in Alma 34:34-35; 42:16 etc. They simply explain it away like LDS Apostle James Talmage does in his book entitled Articles of Faith. He wrote, “True eternal punishment has been decreed as the lot of the wicked; but the meaning of this expression has been given by the Lord Himself: eternal punishment is God’s punishment; endless punishment is God’s punishment, for “Endless” and “Eternal” are among His names and the words are descriptive of His attributes. No soul shall be kept in prison or continued in torment beyond the time requisite to work the needed reformation and to vindicate justice, for which ends alone punishment is imposed...Upon all who reject the word of God in this life will fall the penalties provided; but after the debt has been paid the prison doors shall be opened, and the spirits once confined in suffering, then chastened and clean, shall come forth to partake of the glory provided for their class” (pp. 146-148). A pamphlet published by the LDS Church entitled The Plan of Salvation declares on page 29, “Eternal punishment is God’s punishment; everlasting punishment is God’s punishment; or in other words, it is the name of the punishment God inflicts, He being eternal in his nature. Whosoever, therefore receives God’s punishment, receives eternal punishment, whether it is endured one hour, one day, one week, one year, or an age.” But, “Eternal life, on the other hand, is the condition of life that those who live righteous lives will enjoy throughout the ages in the kingdom of God. In fact, it means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God” (The Gospel Through the Ages by Milton R. Hunter, p. 11). Or, as Doctrine and Covenants 132:20 declares, “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting...” Is that a consistent way to interpret eternal punishment and eternal life?

We will continue to discuss the Articles of Faith next month. Those wanting to read more about the Articles of Faith from a Mormon perspective can do so in the book by that title. From a Christian perspective my book, Mormon Claims Answered will be helpful.


966 posted on 01/25/2008 11:48:33 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture
The Articles of Faith, Part III
by Marvin W. Cowan

Our last two articles showed that Joseph Smith wrote the “Articles of Faith” along with a short history of Mormonism as one article. In that short history, Smith claimed the Lord told him existing churches “were all wrong,” that “all their creeds (doctrines) were an abomination” and “that those professors (believers) were all corrupt” (see Pearl of Great Price, Jos. Smith-Hist. 1:19). That is the reason Joseph Smith and his successors claim that a “universal apostasy” took place shortly after the death of the Lord’s apostles and it lasted until Joseph Smith restored the truth on April 6, 1830. Therefore, even though Mormonism claims to be a Christian church, it would be a contradiction for Smith’s “Articles of Faith” to teach the same doctrines that Smith claims the Lord condemned in all of the false, apostate churches! We previously showed that the words in the first LDS “Article of Faith” mean something very different to Mormons than they do to historic or biblical Christians.
The second “Article of Faith” declares, “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.” But what does that mean? It infers that other churches teach that men are punished for “Adam’s transgression.” However, the Bible does not say that men will be punished for what Adam did, nor do Bible believing Christians teach that. That is a “straw man” that LDS leaders have set up so they could knock it down to show how wrong others are. But, Paul did write in Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned.” That text declares that sin came into the world through one man (Adam) and it brought death with it. As sons of Adam we all die because we are children of disobedience (Eph. 2:1-3) having inherited a nature that sins. Thus, the Bible says, “there is none righteous, no, not one” (Rom. 3:10-12; Ps. 14:1-3) because “all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23; 5:12). That is why we need a Savior. Even before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the angel said to Joseph, “Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21). Notice that the angel did not say, “He shall save His people from Adam’s sin.” Paul declared, “Christ died for our sins” (I Cor. 15:3). And Peter wrote, “(Christ) who His own self bore our sins in His own body on the tree...” (I Pet. 2:25). John also said, “And ye know that he (Christ) was manifested to take away our sins” (I John 3:5). Christ does take away our sins when we repent and believe that “his blood cleanses us from all sin” (I John 1:7). If we do not repent and put our trust in Christ, we will be punished for our own sins, but not Adam’s sin.

Mormons don’t believe Adam sinned in the Garden of Eden anyway. The 10th LDS Prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, “I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin...It is true, the Lord warned Adam and Eve that to partake of the fruit they would transgress a law, and this happened. But it is not always a sin to transgress a law” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 114). Gospel Principles is a manual for instructing new members of the LDS Church in their beliefs. It was published by the LDS Church and copyrighted by the LDS President and Prophet himself, so it is reliable information. It says, “Some people believe that Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing” (p. 31). The April 1990 Ensign magazine for LDS adults declares: “Adam and Eve’s transgression was not really a wrongful act of ‘sin’ as we usually understand that term. While their choice violated the command against partaking of the fruit, that same choice was necessary to enable their obedience to the command to have children. Their ‘transgression’ was thus a painful but correct, even eternally glorious, choice” (p. 9). LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie also wrote, “It is possible to transgress a law without committing a sin, as in the case of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 804). But the Bible declares, “Sin is the transgression of the law” (I John 3:4). Therefore, if Adam and Eve “transgressed a law,” they sinned! Furthermore, when Romans 5:12 declares, “by one man sin entered into the world,” the context says that “one man” was named “Adam” in verse 14. So, how could sin enter the world by Adam if he did not sin?

The second Article of Faith says Mormons believe that “men will be punished for their own sins....” However, that doesn’t mean they believe what the Bible teaches about “eternal punishment” even though the Book of Mormon teaches it in Alma 34:34-35; 42:16 etc. They simply explain it away like LDS Apostle James Talmage does in his book entitled Articles of Faith. He wrote, “True eternal punishment has been decreed as the lot of the wicked; but the meaning of this expression has been given by the Lord Himself: eternal punishment is God’s punishment; endless punishment is God’s punishment, for “Endless” and “Eternal” are among His names and the words are descriptive of His attributes. No soul shall be kept in prison or continued in torment beyond the time requisite to work the needed reformation and to vindicate justice, for which ends alone punishment is imposed...Upon all who reject the word of God in this life will fall the penalties provided; but after the debt has been paid the prison doors shall be opened, and the spirits once confined in suffering, then chastened and clean, shall come forth to partake of the glory provided for their class” (pp. 146-148). A pamphlet published by the LDS Church entitled The Plan of Salvation declares on page 29, “Eternal punishment is God’s punishment; everlasting punishment is God’s punishment; or in other words, it is the name of the punishment God inflicts, He being eternal in his nature. Whosoever, therefore receives God’s punishment, receives eternal punishment, whether it is endured one hour, one day, one week, one year, or an age.” But, “Eternal life, on the other hand, is the condition of life that those who live righteous lives will enjoy throughout the ages in the kingdom of God. In fact, it means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God” (The Gospel Through the Ages by Milton R. Hunter, p. 11). Or, as Doctrine and Covenants 132:20 declares, “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting...” Is that a consistent way to interpret eternal punishment and eternal life?

We will continue to discuss the Articles of Faith next month. Those wanting to read more about the Articles of Faith from a Mormon perspective can do so in the book by that title. From a Christian perspective my book, Mormon Claims Answered will be helpful.


967 posted on 01/25/2008 11:49:17 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

MORMON SCRIPTURE:
The Articles of Faith, Part IV
by Marvin W. Cowan

In our previous discussions of the LDS Articles of Faith we looked at their historical context and then the meaning of the first two Articles in the light of that context. We will now discuss the third Article of Faith which declares, “We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” While this Article refers to “the atonement of Christ,” that phrase is not found in the New Testament even though the concept of the atonement of Christ is certainly there.
The word “atonement” is used many times in the Old Testament but it is not found in the New Testament except in the King James Version of Romans 5:11 where it should be translated “reconciliation.” In that respect the word “atonement” is like the word “Trinity” because the doctrine is in the New Testament, but not the word itself. The Biblical teaching about how man can be reconciled to God through Christ’s substitutionary atonement is found in texts like Romans 5:6-11; I Corinthians 15:3; II Corinthians 5:21; I Peter 2:24; I John 2:2 and many others. A good summary of what the atonement means to Christians is found in I John 1:7b, which says, “the blood of Jesus Christ His [God’s] Son, cleanses us from all sin.”

But we need to know what Mormons believe about “the atonement of Christ” in order to understand the third Article of Faith. LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie wrote on pages 61-62 of Mormon Doctrine,

A knowledge of two great truths is essential to an understanding of the doctrine of the atonement: 1. The fall of Adam; and 2. The divine Sonship of our Lord. Adam’s fall brought spiritual and temporal death into the world. Spiritual death is to be cast out of the presence of the Lord and die as pertaining to the things of righteousness, or in other words things of the spirit. Temporal death or natural death is the separation of the body and spirit...the atonement of Christ is designed to ransom men from the effects of the fall of Adam in that both spiritual and temporal death are conquered...The body and spirit which separated, incident to what men call the natural death, are reunited in immortality... Immortality comes as a free gift, by the grace of God alone, without works of righteousness. Eternal life is the reward for “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (Third Article of Faith).

McConkie further explains on page 378 of the same book, “Immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state with body and spirit inseparably connected.” And on page 669 he wrote, “Unconditional or general salvation, that which comes by grace alone without obedience to gospel law, consists in the mere fact of being resurrected. In this sense salvation is synonymous with immortality.”

A pamphlet by LDS Apostle Stephen L. Richards entitled Contributions of Joseph Smith explains on page 6, “There will be general salvation for all in the sense in which the term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation” (which is sometimes called individual salvation). Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth Mormon Prophet also wrote, “Salvation is twofold: General—that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ—and, Individual—that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 134). Notice that in the LDS definitions above, immortality, resurrection and salvation are synonymous.

But, the Bible does not teach that everyone will receive “general salvation” whether or not they believe in Christ, nor does the Bible ever call resurrection “salvation.” On the contrary, the Bible says, “He that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark 16:16b). And John 3:18 declares, “He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” The Bible teaches, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust” (Acts 24:15). But the resurrection of the just is very different from that of the unjust. Daniel 12:2 says, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” And Jesus said in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

If “resurrection” and “salvation” mean the same thing as LDS claim above, then those who receive the “resurrection of damnation” also receive salvation! That would contradict what Jesus said above in John 5:28-29 as well as many other Biblical texts. Furthermore, II Corinthians 6:2b says, “Behold, now is the accepted time; behold now is the day of salvation.” Is the resurrection taking place now? If the resurrection is not happening now, then resurrection does not mean the same thing as salvation. We have been primarily discussing what Mormons call “General Salvation.”

McConkie said in order to understand the atonement of Christ we needed to know two great truths: 1. The fall of Adam and 2. The divine Sonship of Christ. He explained the LDS view of the fall of Adam in the above quotations, but the LDS view of the divine Sonship of Christ has not been discussed yet. In order to understand the LDS view of “the divine Sonship of Christ” we first need to understand how LDS view God the Father. We briefly discussed that where we discussed the first Article of Faith in “Part II” of our series on the Articles of Faith. We urge you to read that to understand how the LDS view of “the divine Sonship of Christ” is related to their view of God.

Next month we will continue our discussion of the third LDS Article of Faith and consider the LDS view of the divine Sonship of Christ as well as their view of Individual Salvation or Exaltation as they often call it. If you want to read more on this subject from an LDS viewpoint, The Articles of Faith by LDS Apostle, James Talmage is a good source of information.


968 posted on 01/25/2008 11:50:11 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture: The Articles of Faith, Part V
by Marvin W. Cowan

The third LDS Article of Faith declares: “We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.” LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie, explained, “A knowledge of two great truths is essential to an understanding of the doctrine of the atonement: 1. The fall of Adam; and 2. The divine Sonship of our Lord” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 61-62). Our last article briefly discussed some of the LDS views of the atonement and the fall of Adam, but there is a lot more involved. The fall or transgression of Adam was explained in Part III of this series when we discussed the second Article of Faith.
Mormons believe God gave Adam two conflicting commands: 1. To multiply and replenish the earth and 2. Not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam wisely chose to break the lesser commandment so that he could obey the more important command to reproduce. This doctrine is taught on pages 36-38 of The Ensign (an official adult LDS magazine) for January 2002. It says on page 38, “As Latter-day Saints, we believe that Adam and Eve’s choice to partake of the forbidden fruit was ultimately a good thing–an essential act for our growth.” Is it really a good thing to disobey God’s command? The Bible calls that “sin”!

McConkie said the second thing necessary to understand the atonement was “the divine Sonship of our Lord.” But to understand the LDS view of Christ’s “divine Sonship,” one needs to understand the LDS view of God the Father. We discussed that in Part II of this series concerning the First Article of Faith. LDS believe: God “the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) because He “was once as we are now and is an exalted (resurrected) man” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346).

McConkie explains the “divine Sonship of Christ” this way: “All men were first born in pre-existence as the literal spirit offspring of God our Heavenly Father...and are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity...Christ, destined to be the Only Begotten Son in Mortality, was the first spirit offspring in pre-existence” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 84). He also said, “God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; He was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; He was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for He is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says” (Ibid. p. 742).

He said of Mary’s role in Christ’s birth: “Our Lord’s mother, Mary, like Christ, was chosen and foreordained in pre-existence for the part she was destined to play in the great plan of salvation... she was one of the noblest and greatest of all the spirit offspring of the Father... Nephi (in the Book of Mormon) saw her as “A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins... As such a virgin she gave birth to a Son whose Father was the Almighty God” (Ibid. p. 471). Notice that McConkie said Mary was a spirit daughter of God the Father in the pre-mortal world and He was also the Father of her Son in this world!

LDS scripture says, God “the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). LDS also believe Christ was begotten by God “in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). So, the LDS view of the “divine Sonship of Christ” is very different from what is recorded in Matthew 1:18-25, Luke 1:26-38 and other biblical texts.

The last part of the third Article of Faith declares, “all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.” McConkie defined two kinds of LDS salvation: “1. Unconditional or general salvation, that which comes by grace alone without obedience to gospel law, consists in the mere fact of being resurrected...2. Conditional or individual salvation, that which comes by grace coupled with gospel obedience, consists in receiving an inheritance in the celestial kingdom of God” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 669). Second Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon also says, “We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” But the Bible says, “...there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no more of works, otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace, otherwise work is no more work” (Rom. 11:5-6).

By definition, grace is an unearned gift, freely given and therefore it excludes works or payment of any kind. And works excludes grace because when you work for something, it is not free! So, Paul wrote, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). He also wrote, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Titus 3:5-6). Since obedience to laws and ordinances are “works of righteousness,” they cannot save us! But, Christians, however, do believe in doing good works, not to earn their salvation, but as a result of it as Ephesians 2:8-10 and Titus 3:5-8, etc., explain.

LDS Apostle John Widtsoe wrote about “individual salvation” this way: “Complete salvation, which is full and eternal life, results from man’s full endeavor to conform to the laws of life, the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why we often say that men save themselves with the aid of the Lord (Evidences And Reconciliations, p. 190).

Do men save themselves while Jesus provides some aid? Even before Jesus was born, the angel told Joseph, “Thou shalt call His name Jesus; for HE shall save his people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21). The Bible also says, “HE came to seek and save the lost” (Lk. 19:10); “HE came into the world to save sinners” (I Tim. 1:15); “HE appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” (Heb. 9:26); HE “bore our sins in His own body on the tree” (I Pet. 2:24); “HE is able also to save them unto the uttermost that come to God by Him”(Heb. 7:25); HE is called our SAVIOR because HE saves us!

Next month we will discuss “the first principles and ordinances of the gospel” in the fourth Article of Faith. For further reading on this month’s subject, we recommend my book, What Every Mormon Should Ask, published by Harvest House Publishers in 2000.


969 posted on 01/25/2008 11:51:10 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormon Scripture
The Articles of Faith, Part VI
by Marvin W. Cowan

We previously discussed the first three “Articles of Faith” of the Mormon Church. We are discussing these 13 creedal statements because they use words familiar to Christians but they have very different meanings to Mormons. If Christians and Mormons really want to communicate, they need to understand the meaning of the words used by each other. Hopefully, articles like this will help make that possible. The fourth Article of Faith declares, “We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.” For Bible believing Christians, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is not just the first of several things that God requires for men to be saved and have eternal life with Him, but it is all that He requires. Texts like John 3:15-18, 36; 5:24; 6:47; Romans 1:16-17; 3:19-28; 10:9-10; I John 5:10-13 etc., make that very clear. And even faith is God’s gift to us according to Ephesians 2:8-9.

In his book explaining the Articles of Faith, LDS Apostle James Talmage said, “Faith in a passive sense, that is, as mere belief in the more superficial sense of the term is inefficient as a means of salvation.… A most pernicious doctrine [is] that of justification by belief alone. The Savior taught that works were essential to the validity of profession and the efficacy of faith.… Yet, in spite of the plain word of God, dogmas of men have been promulgated to the effect that by faith alone may salvation be attained.” And later he said, “The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil” (The Articles of Faith, pp. 107-108 & 479). But Paul declared that God is “the Justifier of him who believes in Jesus,” and then asked, “Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without [apart from] the deeds of the law” (Rom. 3:26-28).

Mormons often quote part of Philippians 2:12 to teach that men must “work out their own salvation” in addition to believing in Christ. Works are a very important part of Mormon salvation as we showed in our last discussion about the third Article of Faith. But Philippians 2:13 explains that we can work out only what God has first worked in us. While Biblical Christians do not believe their works help save them, they do believe their works are the evidence of their faith (James 2:18). Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s founder, began his Lectures on Faith by declaring, “Faith being the first principle in revealed religion, and the foundation of all righteousness.…” Yet, LDS Apostle McConkie wrote, “Faith is a gift of God bestowed as a reward for personal righteousness” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 264). How can one have personal righteousness before he has faith if faith is the “foundation of all righteousness” as Smith declared? Hebrews 11:6 also says, “Without faith it is impossible to please Him [God].” If you can’t please God without faith, can God be so pleased with your personal righteousness that He will reward you with faith? Obviously, the Mormon view of faith is confusing and very different from Biblical faith.

The object of faith for both Mormons and Christians is Jesus Christ. But as we discussed in last month’s article, the Jesus of Mormonism is not the same Jesus that the Bible teaches. So, even though the fourth Article of Faith begins with “Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,” it is not referring to the Jesus that the Bible teaches. John 1:1 declares, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” and Bible believing Christians understand that “the Word” refers to Christ, as John 1:14 confirms. Thus, Christ was God manifested in the flesh just as Paul said in I Timothy 3:16. That is a very different Jesus from the Mormon Jesus who was born as a baby spirit in a pre-mortal world to God and His wife. Mormons believe that baby spirit grew to maturity and “attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent while yet in his pre-existent state.” Mary and God the Father, who is a resurrected man with a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s, became the parents of that pre-mortal Jesus when He was later born physically on this earth as the literal Son of God (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 84,129, 278, 471, 742). Thus, when Mormons talk of “faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,” neither the faith nor Jesus Christ are the same as those in the Bible.

Repentance is the second thing mentioned in the fourth Article of Faith. President Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th LDS Prophet, wrote, “Repentance and forgiveness are part of the glorious climb toward godhood” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.14). He also taught, “There are sins that are so serious that we know of no forgiveness for them” (p. 61). And he said, “Christ’s death on the cross offers us exemption from the eternal punishment for most sins” (p. 133). But, I Corinthians 15:3 declares, “Christ died for our sins.” And I John 1:7 declares that “the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.” Referring to the thief on the cross, Kimball said, “ No one can repent on the cross, nor in prison, nor in custody” (p. 166). If such people can’t repent, why are Mormon chaplains teaching prisoners about Mormonism? Kimball also quoted from Doctrine & Covenants 82:7 which says, “Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.” Then he said, “Each previously forgiven sin is added to the new one and the whole gets to be a heavy load’ (p. 170). But, according to Doctrine & Covenants 58:42, God doesn’t even remember the sins He forgives! Hebrews 10:17 in the Bible also teaches that. And Psalm 103:12 declares, “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us.” If God doesn’t remember the sins He forgives, and He removes them as far as the east is from the west, how can He put those same sins all back on someone who sins after he has repented? It is obvious that Kimball holds views of repentance and forgiveness different from the Bible.

Next month we will continue our discussion of the fourth Article of Faith. For more on the LDS view of faith and repentance, see Spencer Kimball’s The Miracle of Forgiveness, published in 1969 by Bookcraft in Salt Lake City, UT.


970 posted on 01/25/2008 11:52:01 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

The Restoration - Part 1
By Marvin W. Cowan

The Mormon Church claims to be a restoration of “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30). It also claims that there was a “decline and final extinction of the primitive church among men” (The Great Apostasy, Preface) and therefore, all other churches are a part of “apostate Christendom” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 131). Notice how LDS Apostle, James Talmage explains the concept of the restoration:

Talmage makes two very important points in the above quotation:

1. It would be unnecessary and even impossible to restore the true Church and Gospel if they still existed on earth because you can’t “restore” something unless it is marred or destroyed. (To restore something is to put it back in its original condition as nearly as possible).
2. The second point Talmage makes is that if there was no universal apostasy or extinction of the original Church and Gospel, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can’t be a “restoration” of Christ’s true Church and Gospel and therefore, its claims would be false.

In spite of Mormonism’s claim that there was a universal apostasy, their own scriptures contradict that teaching. Section 7 of the Doctrine and Covenants is supposed to be a translated version of a revelation recorded by the Apostle John and later revealed to Joseph Smith. Verses 1-3 say:

Verse 6 goes on to say that John “shall minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation who dwell on the earth.” This text is the reason why Mormons claim that the Apostle John has been on the earth preaching the gospel and bringing souls to Jesus ever since he became a disciple of Christ in the first century. But, how could there have been a “universal apostasy” of the Church and Gospel if the Apostle John was actually doing what this LDS scripture said he would do? But that is only part of the problem.

The Book of Mormon also claims that after Jesus was resurrected in Judea, he appeared in America and chose twelve “Nephite” disciples to function like the twelve did in Palestine. The heading over 3rd Nephi, chapter 28 says: “Nine of the Twelve desire and are promised an inheritance in Christ’s kingdom when they die—The three Nephites desire and are given power over death so as to remain on the earth until Jesus comes again—They are translated and see things not lawful to utter, and they are now ministering among men.” In 3rd Nephi 28:6 Jesus told the three Nephite disciples that He knew that they wanted the same thing that the Apostle John wanted, so in verse 7 He said to them: “ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven.” Then verse 18 says those three “did go forth upon the face of the land, and did minister unto all the people, uniting as many to the church as would believe in their preaching; baptizing them, and as many as were baptized did receive the Holy Ghost.” Thus, according to LDS scripture, four disciples of Jesus never died but have been on the earth preaching, baptizing, and adding people to the Church, and they will continue to do so until He comes again. That teaching is in conflict with the LDS teaching of a universal apostasy whereby the true Church and Gospel were no longer on earth. How could there be such an apostasy with four Apostles of Christ on earth along with multitudes of their converts? Either Mormonism’s doctrine of a universal apostasy is wrong or their scripture is wrong—or both!

In the Bible, Jesus said, “I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). He also said “all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matt. 28:18), so He surely should have had the ability to build His Church! Even after He had ascended into heaven, Acts 2:47 records: “And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” Thus, He was building His Church just like He said He would in Matthew 16:18. The Apostle Paul declared that God “gave Him (Christ) to be the head over all things to the church, which is His body—” (Eph. 1:22-23). And in Ephesians 5:23, he said, “Christ is the head of the Church.” Again in Colossians 1:18 Paul said, Christ “is the head of the body, the church.” Notice that Scripture describes the Church as a body with Christ as the Head. The Head and body are permanently joined together as one unit. Therefore, it is difficult to understand how the “body” or Church could become universally apostate unless the Head also became apostate—which is unthinkable!

We will continue to discuss the LDS claim of being the restored Church in the next article. For further information on this subject you may wish to order my tape entitled The Joseph Smith Story Examined


971 posted on 01/25/2008 11:53:38 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

The Restoration - Part 2
By Marvin Cowan

Apostasy and Restoration is the title of a pamphlet published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). On the last page it says “As Latter-day Saints we testify that shortly after the death of the Lord’s original twelve apostles, there came seventeen hundred years of apostasy and darkness. Then in 1820, the resurrected Savior appeared to Joseph Smith and called Him to be a prophet to all the world. Through him came the restoration of the priesthood, the gospel, and the true church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” In the LDS scripture called The Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:3-19, Smith claimed he was fourteen years old in 1820 when a revival took place in Palmyra, New York, near Manchester where he lived. The claims of the Methodists, Presbyterians and Baptists confused him, so he asked God in prayer which church was right and which he should join. In response, both God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to him and told him not to join any of the churches because they were all wrong along with all their creeds (doctrines) and all those who professed to believe them.

Since Joseph Smith had no witnesses to his “First Vision,” is there any other way to determine whether or not his story is true? Yes, Smith mentions several details that can be compared with other records of those same details. For example, he mentions a revival among Methodists, Presbyterians and Baptists in Palmyra, New York, near his home in Manchester, just before he was visited by God and Christ early in the spring of 1820. He also said his brother, Alvin, died November 19, 1823. This kind of data can be verified or disproved by other records. For example, in verse 5, Smith claimed he was living in Manchester, New York in 1820. But in 1970, BYU microfilmed the road tax lists of Palmyra township during the Smith era. Joseph Smith, Sr., was listed among property owners and males over 21 who were required to repair the roads in Palmyra Road District No. 26 from April 1817 through April 1822 because that is where they lived. The property tax records for Manchester show that the Smith’s bought their land in 1821, but there was no home on it before 1822, which agrees with the road tax records. So the Smiths did not live in Manchester in 1820.

In verse 5, Joseph Smith said that in the place where he lived there was an “unusual excitement on the subject of religion” and great multitudes united themselves to the Methodist, Presbyterian, and Baptist Churches. Since Smith said it was this revival that caused him to ask God which church was right in spring of 1820, the revival would have had to have been shortly before that in 1819 or early 1820. But those churches in Palmyra in 1819 and 1820 recorded more losses than gains! Nor did the area newspapers mention a revival then.

Joseph also said his brother Alvin died November 19, 1823, and Alvin’s tombstone confirms that date. William Smith, another brother, and one of the original 12 LDS apostles, wrote that Rev. Stockton spoke at Alvin’s funeral indicating he went to hell. William also said that Rev. Stockton and Rev. Lane later became leaders of the Palmyra revival and Joseph Smith, Sr., (Smith’s father) refused to go to the meetings because of what Stockton had said at Alvin’s funeral. Therefore, the revival had to be after Alvin’s death. The area newspapers reported a revival in the fall of 1824 and early 1825, led by Rev. Stockton and Rev. Lane, which resulted in large numbers joining the churches. The church records for the Methodists, Presbyterians and Baptists also show large gains at that time. But if that was the revival that caused Joseph Smith to ask God which church was right, the earliest “spring” he could have had his First Vision was in 1825. Smith also seems to be confused about what he saw in his First Vision. His earliest account in his own diary says he saw the Lord who told him his sins were forgiven. But there was no mention of all the churches being wrong. Another time he said the Lord and many angels appeared to him. The account in LDS scripture was published 22 years after it supposedly happened and says he saw “two personages” who are now identified as God the Father and Christ. But the Bible says “No man hath seen God at any time” (John 1:18; I John 4:12; I Tim. 6:16). The reason no man can see God is because He is invisible (Col. 1:15).

Smith’s story also claims that the angel Moroni first visited him three years after his First Vision and then it was four more years before he got the gold plates and began to translate the Book of Mormon. If Smith’s First Vision was in the spring of 1825, he couldn’t have begun to translate the Book of Mormon until 1832. But the Book of Mormon was registered June 11, 1829! Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth LDS Prophet, said “Mormonism as it is called must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground...If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. I, p. 188). The errors and contradictions in Smith’s story indicate it is not true.

For more information on this subject we recommend Inventing Mormonism by Wesley Walters and Michael Marquardt, published by Smith Research Associates in 1994. Our next article will discuss the Angel Moroni and other heavenly visitors involved in Smith’s “Restored Church.”


972 posted on 01/25/2008 11:54:23 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

IS MORMONISM CHRISTIAN?
BY R. PHILIP ROBERTS
Is Mormonism Christian? This question is not a new one, but one that is being asked recently from a different direction and with a different angle. Previously, this query was raised principally by traditional Christians on a quest to determine whether or not Mormon doctrines and principles were indeed Christian. The answers found, often provided by outstanding evangelical scholars and apologists, demonstrated that the LDS Church does indeed believe that the Bible has been corrupted, that Joseph Smith added additional fabricated volumes to Scripture, that God was once a man, that Jesus was “sired” by God in union with Mary, that active membership in the LDS Church is essential for the fullness of salvation, and numerous other doctrinal positions wholly incompatible with biblical orthodox Christianity.

Today, however, the question originates with the Mormon church and is directed to at least two audiences. The first audience is their own membership, many of whom are unsettled with being thought of as a cult. Mormon Church leaders, therefore, are attempting to calm the waters by reassuring them that mentioning the name of Jesus often - having it appear in their literature and church logo - answers the question in the affirmative and is reason enough to believe that they are Christians.

The second audience is evangelical Christians themselves - their churches, ministerial alliances, and other organizations where Mormons hope to make public alliances, and other organizations where Mormons hope to make public relation inroads - as well as to create seedbeds for their proselytizing efforts.

Well, what about it, is Mormonism Christian? Not unless it has been altered radically and that, very recently. There was perhaps some hope that the LDS church might consider rethinking their Gnostic view of man, their henotheistic/polytheistic view of God, their sacerdotal-ecclesiastical system of salvation, and their peculiar fertility-cult Hinduistic, cyclical world view, in favor of a less outrageous model when the LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley equivocated his way through a Time Magazine interview. When asked the question whether God was once a man, he answered, “I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it... I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it.”

Were his hesitations signs of the beginning of a hoped for, incremental, baby-steps reform? Clearly not. Consider the issuing this spring of an LDS Church instructional book entitled: Teachings

and Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young. The manual was published under the purview of the Mormon First Presidency, including President Hinckley. It was probably in process about the period of the Time Magazine interview. Chapter four, “Knowing and Honoring the Godhead,” contains the following lines: “Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere. It is not so. President Brigham Young taught ‘that God the Father was once a man on another planet who passed through the ordeals we are now passing through and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death on this mortality.’”

There we have it, President Hinckley. You do believe and your Church still teaches that God was once a mortal human being, who sinned, erred, died and who knows what else, and yet is now your god. That is certainly not the Christian view of God. In fact, it is a long way from the Bible’s concept of the Eternal, uncreated One:

For I am God and there is no other;
I am God and there is none like Me. (Isaiah 46:9)

Before me there was no God formed.
Nor shall there be after Me. (Isaiah 43:10)

Considering just their view of God, the only way that Mormons could be labeled Christian is with the attachment of the adjective “heretical.” The Mormon god is no god at all, but rather, is a demiurge, a subordinate god who is not worthy of the name “God.”

There is therefore only one conclusion that we can arrive at regarding the “Mormons are Christians” campaign and that is that the LDS Church is simply orchestrating a public relations campaign. They have so revised the biblical concept of God that it is unrecognizable as such. Their only argument remaining is - “but we use the name of Jesus!” But so did the Marcionites, the Arians, the Sabellians, the Monophysites, the Apollinarians, and a whole host of other heretical movements throughout history. I cam claim to be Evander Holyfield, but that does not make me THE Evander Holyfield.

No, we just reject consistently and persistently, but with grace, patience, and love the Mormon claim to the precious appellation of “Christian” - follower of the crucified, risen Lord, “...the Word was with God (One eternal, uncreated being), and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)


973 posted on 01/25/2008 11:59:30 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

If all Mormons are Christians,
then all Christians are Mormon
Mormons claim to be Christian yet deny the essentials of Christianity; namely, that there is one God, that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, that there is a trinity, that Jesus is God, etc.
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is “a” god.... etc. Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
Now, Mormons deny these basic Christian doctrines, yet they want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things. But when they speak of Jesus, they mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. They teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones.
None of this is in the Bible and none of this is believed by Christians. But that has not stopped them from wanting to be called Christian.
So, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon. For example, I deny the following Mormon doctrines.

I deny that there are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
I deny that the trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
I deny that god is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
I deny that there is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
I deny that god is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
I deny that god and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
I deny that we were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
I deny that Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I deny that I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I deny that I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
I deny that the book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
I deny that good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
I deny that my own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).
Therefore, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?


974 posted on 01/25/2008 12:01:35 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Does Mormonism Attack Other Religions?

Mormons do not like it when their Church is labeled a cult by Christians. This bothers them and they want desperately to be accepted as Christian by the Christian community. The Mormon church spends a great deal of time and money on public relations with the aim of portraying a loving, family oriented, non-condemning Christian denomination. But Christians react to this and cite the great differences in doctrine between Mormons and Christians and continue to pronounce the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a non-Christian cult.
The battle continues and Mormons try to claim that they do not go around condemning other religions like “anti-Mormons” do. They say they are forgiving, tolerant, good Christian people who don’t have anything against anyone. They claim they are being more Christ-like.
Their desire for a good image is understandable. But the question remains. Does the Mormon church condemn other religious systems? The answer is definitely, “Yes.” Let’s look at Mormon writers and see what they have said.

Joseph Smith said . . .

(Regarding Joseph Smith’s alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him.) . . .) “My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith, “History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.)

“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world.” (”Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,” Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)

(In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. . .)
First — “Do you believe the Bible?”
If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.”
Third — “Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?”
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.” (Teachings, page 119.)

Brigham Young said. . .

“But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong.” (Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses,” Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.” (J.D.”, Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863)

James Talmage said . . .

“A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ”. (”The Articles of Faith,” Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, Utah. P. 182.)

Bruce McConkie said . . .

“With the loss of the gospel, the nations of the earth went into a moral eclipse called the Dark Ages.” (”Mormon Doctrine,” Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah, page. 44.)

Joseph Fielding Smith said . . .

“Again, following the death of his apostles, apostasy once more set in, and again the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel were changed to suit the conveniences and notions of the people. Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.” (”Doctrines of Salvation,” page 266.)

The Book of Mormon says. . .

“And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth” (1 Nephi 14:10).

“And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . .” (1 Nephi. 14:17).

The Doctrine and Covenants says . . .

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face” (Doctrine and Covenants, 112:23).

When the Mormon missionaries come to the door and do their “gospel” presentation, they mention an apostasy and the need for a prophet, their prophet, to restore the true Teachings of Jesus. Of course, these ‘restored’ teachings are completely false.
Nevertheless, the Mormon church clearly condemns other religious systems. Those Mormons who complain about poor treatment should familiarize themselves with their teachers’


975 posted on 01/25/2008 12:02:45 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

A logical proof that Mormonism is false

Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another world and that he became a god (this is called exaltation) and came to this world with his goddess wife. He was able to become a god because he followed the laws and ordinances of the god he served on another world. That god in turn was exalted by his god, who was exalted by his god, ad infinitum. In other words, there is a progression of gods being formed as far back as you look in time.
Truth does not contradict itself. If I gave two statements about a subject and the two statements contradicted each other, then you would know something was wrong. The law of non contradiction states that something cannot be both true and false in the same sense at the same time. In other words, truth does not contradict itself. This is basic logic. That which is true is internally consistent and contains no logical impossibilities. If something does contain a logical impossibility, then it cannot be true.
Mormonism teaches an infinite regression of causes. This means that it teaches that each god was made a god by a previous god. This means that as far back as you look in time, this process has always been occurring. This means that from an infinity of time in the past, the Mormon plan of exaltation (become gods) has been in effect. The only problem is that this is logically impossible. Since it is logically impossible, this means that Mormonism is false. Let’s look closer.
There cannot be an infinite regression of causes. It is logically impossible. Why? Because you can not cross an infinity.
In other words, in order for us to get to the present state of this god on this planet, there would have had to be an infinite number of exaltations in the past. But, this cannot be because in order to get to the present, you would have to transverse an infinity of exaltations and that is impossible since you cannot transverse an infinity — if you could cross (transverse) an infinity of time, then it isn’t infinite. Therefore, the Mormon system of infinite regressions of exaltations to godhood is impossible and Mormonism is proven false. Simple.
However, Mormons will not give in to a logical proof since their testimonies are not based on facts, but on what they claim is a testimony of the Holy Spirit. Of course, all cult groups have testimonies that their church is true (proving that testimonies are contradictory and untrustworthy as a means to determining truth). Nevertheless, they are taught to “feel” theological truth, not think it through.
How then do they respond to this logical proof that Mormonism is false? Normally they say that it is a mystery. Mysteries are fine, but they cannot suffice as an explanation if they contradict logic. In other words, if a principle is blatantly illogically, it cannot be true. Did you get that? It cannot be true. Saying it is a mystery means nothing if the proclamation of that mystery violates the laws of logic. Mormonism is proven false.

What is the truth?

Okay, so if the Mormon principle of eternal regression of exaltations is logically impossible, then what is the truth?
The truth is that there is a single uncaused cause. Logic necessitates that there must be a single being who is without beginning and upon which time has no meaning or affect who is the single uncaused cause. The Bible says that God is unchanging (unlike the Mormon god) and that he has been God from eternity. This is exactly what logic necessitates as being true. The God of Christianity is not an exalted man from another planet with a goddess wife. The God of Christianity has always been God and has never been anything else.
Check out the following verses.

“For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed,” (Mal. 3:6).

“Before the mountains were born or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God,” (Psalm 90:2).

What is sad is that this simple logical proof, and it is a proof that Mormonism is false, will mean basically nothing to those whose spiritual eyes have been blinded by the god of this world.

“And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God,” (2 Cor. 4:3-4).


976 posted on 01/25/2008 12:04:19 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

A Biblical Response to Mormons

Witnessing to a Mormon is like trying to climb Jell-O: it’s hard to get a foothold. But, if you know what Mormonism teaches then you are already well on your way. Following are basic approaches that should aid you in witnessing to a Mormon. Though none of these approaches are fool proof they will provide you with the basic framework you need to be able to witness to a Mormon. It will be up to you to use what you have learned, develop more skill in witnessing, and perfect your method as you go. Remember, the best way to learn to witness is to witness.
There are two important things to know before you begin evangelizing Mormons. First, you need to understand their definitions to the same biblical words that you use: Trinity, Jesus, Salvation, Heaven, etc. Second, you must be able to show them that they believe in a wrong Jesus. This is important because only the true Jesus gives eternal life (John 10:28), reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27), and sends the Holy Spirit (John 15:26).
For the first part you really need to study the The Terminology of Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Once you understand what it is that they are saying, you will be much more able to witness.
To witness means you must teach. To teach means you must understand. To understand means you must know not only what you believe, but also what they believe.

Terminology
When a Mormon says he believes in the Trinity he does not mean the historical orthodox Trinity of one God who exists in three persons. To a Mormon, the Trinity is an office held by three separate gods: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Remember, the correct doctrine of the Trinity is that there is only one God who has existed for eternity. This one God exists in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are not three separate gods, but only one God.
When a Mormon says he believes in God he does not mean in the one true God, the creator of all things, the One who has always existed from all time. He means he believes in a god who used to be a man on another planet, who followed the laws and ordinances of that god on that planet and became exalted to godhood. And, to top it all off, he has a wife who is a goddess.
If you are in a witnessing situation with a Mormon you might be using the same words, but you won’t be speaking the same language. So, it is a very good idea to study Terminology Differences where the definitions of Mormon terms (and Jehovah’s Witnesses) are explained and contrasted with true definitions.
They Have a Testimony
Mormons will bear their testimony to you and tell you that they know the Mormon church is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.
There are two basic approaches you can take.
Ask them where their testimony is.
“In my heart.” They’ll say.
You say, “Did you know that the Bible says not to trust your heart because it is deceitful?”
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” (Jer. 17:9).
Second, you can ask them how they get their testimony. They will say by the Holy Spirit.
Ask, “Who bears witness of the truth?”
They will say that the Holy Spirit does.
Correct him gently by showing him that the Holy Spirit Bears witness of Jesus (John 15:26) and that Jesus sends the Holy Spirit (John 15:26).
Once you’ve shown them that the Holy Spirit is sent from Jesus ask them if a false Jesus will send the true Spirit of God. The answer, of course, is no.
The point is that only the Jesus of the Bible will send the Holy Spirit. If they don’t have the right Jesus they can’t have the true Holy Spirit, and their testimony is invalid.
Praying about the Book of Mormon
Mormons believe that if you read the Book of Mormon and then pray and ask God whether or not it is true, you will receive a testimony from the Holy Spirit verifying its truth. If it is true, then Joseph Smith is true and so is Mormonism. Many Mormons claim to have this testimony.
First of all, God never says to pray about truth. He says to search the Scriptures to find truth (Acts 17:11; 2 Tim. 3:16).
So, what the Mormon is doing is unbiblical.
Second, it doesn’t matter what you feel. If what you feel contradicts the Bible, then what you feel is wrong.
Third, ask them if they ever had to pray about the Bible to see if it is true. Of course they haven’t. So why are they supposed to pray about the B.O M.?
Their answer will be that the B.O.M. says to pray about it.
Still, the Bible says to study God’s word for truth, not pray about it.
A common verse that Mormons use to support their belief that you can pray about the B. O. M. is found in James 1:5: “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.” They say that because since they believe they’re sincere, God will answer them.
First of all, the problem with sincerity is that it becomes works righteousness because the person is saying “Because of my sincerity, God will listen to me.” In other words, because of what’s in the person God will look favorably upon him. God does not look into a person and find something good because there is no good in anyone (Rom. 3:10-12; Eph. 2:3).
Second, this verse is about wisdom, not about praying to see if the Book of Mormon is true.
In James 1:1 it says, “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.” So, the book of James was written to those who were believers and already had the truth. That is why James calls them “brothers” in verse 2.
Third, wisdom is the proper use of knowledge, not the acquisition of knowledge. You acquire true spiritual knowledge from the Bible, not your heart. You don’t pray about the B.O.M., you pray about the truth you’ve learned from the Bible and ask God to teach you more, and how to apply properly what He’s already shown you.
What is the Gospel?
The following approach is direct and hard hitting. Sometimes it is necessary to be blunt in order to get their attention. Ask a Mormon “What is the gospel?”.
He will say something like, “The gospel is the laws and the ordinances of the Mormon church.”
Ask again what it is and listen closely for any hint of the free forgiveness of sins through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. You usually hear an answer dealing with works, obedience, doing something, etc.
After the person has answered, explain that according to the Bible, the gospel is what saves us, what cleanses us of our sins, and enables us to stand in the presence of God the Father. Explain that Bible specifically defines the gospel and that the gospel is what makes you a Christian and then ask again, “What is the gospel?”
After you’ve heard a works-righteousness-type answer, turn in your Bible to 1 Cor 15:1-4 and read: “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”
Explain that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus...for sins!
Then turn to 2 Cor. 4:3-4 and read again. “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
Say something like, “You clearly did not understand the gospel message of Jesus the Savior and the Bible clearly shows you why. It is because your mind has been blinded.”
The Apostasy
Mormonism maintains that the true gospel message was lost from the earth shortly after the apostles died.
The Mormon Apostle Orson Prat said, “Jesus...established his kingdom on earth...the kingdoms of this world made war against the kingdom of God, established eighteen centuries ago, and they prevailed against it, and the kingdom ceased to exist.” (Journal of Discourses. Vol. 13, page 125).
But Jesus said, “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18, KJV).
As you can see, Mormonism contradicts what Jesus said. That is why they must say that the Bible is not trustworthy. That is, it isn’t trustworthy wherever it disagrees with Mormonism.
Authority and The Mormon Priesthoods
Since Mormonism claims to be the restoration of the gospel, it also claims to have the authority to perform priestly duties and, therefore, properly represent God here on earth.
All offices of the Mormon church grow out of the priesthoods.
Melchizedek - This is the greater priesthood. It consists of several offices:
Elder, seventy, high priest, patriarch or evangelist, and apostle.
Aaronic - a part of the greater Melchizedek priesthood.
Aaronic priesthood - This is the lesser priesthood
Is synonymous with the Levitical Priesthood (D.&C. 107:1,6,10)
Performs the administration of the ordinances (D.&C. 107:13-14)
Deacon, teacher, then priest.
Quite simply, the Bible contradicts what Mormons believe concerning the priesthood.
Jesus is the only high priest after the order of Melchizedek (Heb. 3:1; 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:11,15,17,21,24,26; 8:1; 9:11).
“Where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:20).
“And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life” (Heb. 7:15-16).
The Melchizedek Priesthood is unchangeable and untransferable
“but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood” (Heb. 7:24).
Many Gods
One of the truly dividing lines between Christianity and Mormonism is their doctrine of the plurality of Gods.
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods. (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 163; Teachings pages 348-349).
In there desire for legitimacy they will even quote 1 Cor. 8:5 to say that the Bible also teaches many gods. 1 Cor. 8:5 says, “For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’).”
They will say, “see even the Bible says there are many gods.”
You can say, “It says there are many that are called gods. It doesn’t say they really are gods. It is saying that they only called gods. The Scriptures recognize that there are false gods (Gal. 4:8).
Besides, the Bible flatly denies the existence of any other gods.
“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “...Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me” (Isaiah 43:10).
“This is what the LORD says — ...I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God...Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one” (Isaiah 44:6,8).
“I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God” (Isaiah 45:5).
Errors in the Book of Mormon
Saved by grace after all you can do? (2 Nephi 25:23)
How could Moroni “read” Heb. 13:8 and James 1:17 when the N.T. never reached America? (Mormon 9:9).
Helaman 12:25-26, written 6 B.C. says, “we read,” quoting 2 Thess. 1:9 and John 5:29, 90 years too early.
Jesus, a son of God (Alma 36:17).
Mosiah 21:28 says King Mosiah had a gift from God, but original B. of M. manuscript reads “King Benjamin”.
Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:1-2; Matt. 2:1). In the Book of Mormon (Alma 7:9,10) it says it was Jerusalem.


977 posted on 01/25/2008 12:05:28 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

A Comparison Between Christian Doctrine
and Mormon Doctrine

“Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test”
(Brigham Young, May 18, 1873, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 16, page 46.)

Following is a comparison between Christian doctrine and Mormon doctrine. It will become very obvious that Mormonism does not agree with the Bible. In fact, Mormonism has simply used the same words found in Christianity and redefined them. But with a proper understanding of what Mormonism really teaches, you will be able to see past those definitions into the real differences between Christianity and Mormonism.
The difference is the difference between eternal life and damnation.

Topic Christian Mormon
GOD There is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5) “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)

God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15) “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)
“Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
TRINITY The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous person: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
JESUS Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23) “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
“Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)
Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17) Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15)
THE
HOLY
SPIRIT The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2) Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God’s presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity).
“He [the Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144)
SALVATION Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God’s grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned (Rom. 11:6). Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . .
“The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.
Salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21) “As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements — ‘obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.’” (Articles of Faith p. 79)
BIBLE The inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses. “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . .” 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.

This is only a sample of many of the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. As you can see, they are quite different doctrines. God cannot be uncreated and created at the same time. There cannot be only one God and many gods at the same time. The Trinity cannot be one God in three persons and three gods in an office known as the Trinity, etc. These teachings are mutually exclusive.
This is important because faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. Is the Mormon god the real one? Or, is the God of historic and biblical Christianity the real one?
Mormonism is obviously not the biblical version of Christianity. It is not Christian and Mormons serve a different god than do the Christians — a god that does not exist. Paul talks about this in Gal. 4:8, “when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.” Only the God of the Bible exists. There are no others. Mormonism puts its faith in a non-existent god.


978 posted on 01/25/2008 12:06:44 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormonism and the Negro

According to Mormon history and authoritative Mormon teachers, the Negro, as they were referred to, are a cursed race because they were not faithful to God in their first estate (the pre-existent life with God). Hence, when they are born they are born in black skinned families.
The early Mormon church was highly prejudicial against black people. And though there has been a change in attitude to blacks as of June 9, 1978 when they were finally allowed into the Mormon priesthood, it cannot be denied that Mormonism was, up until very recently, a segregated church.
Please consider the following small sample of official Mormon writings as proof of their prejudice, their inconsistency, their doctrinal waffling, their yielding to political pressure, and their failure to truly represent Christ on earth.

“At the time the devil was cast out of heaven, there were some spirits that did not know who had authority, whether God or the devil. They consequently did not take a very active part on either side, but rather thought the devil had been abused, and considered he had rather the best claim to the government. These spirits were not considered bad enough to be cast down to hell, and never have bodies; neither were they considered worthy of an honorable body on this earth.” A speech by Elder Orson Hyde, delivered before the High Priests’ Quorum,, in Nauvoo, April 27th, 1845, printed in Liverpool, page 30.
“The very fact that God would allow those spirits who were less worthy in the spirit world to partake of a mortal body at all is further evidence of his mercy.” Mormonism and the Negro, part I, pages 48-50.
“It is the Mormon belief that in our pre-mortal state there were a large number of individuals who, due to some act or behavior of their own in the pre-existence, forfeited the right to hold the Priesthood during their mortal lives...the Negro is thus denied the Priesthood because of his own behavior in the pre-existence.” The Church and the Negro, pages 42-43.
“As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed and told that “the earth” would not thereafter yield him its abundance as previously. In addition he became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition...The Lord placed on Cain a mark of a dark skin, and he became the ancestor of the black race. (Moses 5; Gen. 4; Teachings, p. 169).” Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 109.
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110.
The reader should be reminded that Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said that whatever he preached was as good as scripture — J. D. Vol. 13, page 95, 264.
“...the church went to court on several occasions to block Negroes from moving into the San Francisco neighborhood in which the headquarters was located.” The Christian Century, Sept. 29, 1965, page 1184.
On Oct. 28, 1865, the Mormon Church paper Millennial Star printed an article which stated that “Mormonism is that kind of religion the entire divinity of which is invalidated, and its truth utterly rejected, the moment that any one of its leading principles I acknowledged to be false...”
The Mormon write John J. Stewart stated: “If we as members of the Church are going to pick and choose among the Prophet’s teachings, and say ‘this one is of God, we can accept it, but this one is of man, we will reject that,’ then we are undermining the whole structure of our faith...” Mormonism and the Negro, page 19.
“The prophets have declared that there are at least two major stipulations that have to be met before the Negroes will be allowed to possess the Priesthood. The first requirement relates to time. The Negroes will not be allowed to hold the Priesthood during mortality, in fact, not until after the resurrection of all of Adam’s children. The other stipulation requires that Abel’s seed receive the first opportunity of having the priesthood....the last of Adam’s children will not be resurrected until the end of the millennium. Therefore, the Negroes will not receive the Priesthood until after that time... this will not happen until after the thousand years of Christ’s reign on earth.” The Church and the Negro, 1967, pages 45-48.
Albert B. Fritz, NAACP branch president, said at a civil rights meeting Friday night that his organization promised not to picket the 133rd Semi-Annual General Conference of the Church on Temple Square. He added, however, that the NAACP will picket Temple Square, next Saturday if the Church does not present an ‘acceptable’ statement on civil rights before that day.” Deseret News, Oct. 5, 1963.
“Some 3,000 students, led by the BSU, paraded peacefully on the school’s campus in Seattle Monday over the issue of alleged racism at BYU.” Deseret News, March 10, 1970.
“The demonstration was the latest in a series of protests against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) because the church bars Negroes from its priesthood.” Deseret News, Jan. 10, 1970.
In June of 1978 the Mormon church officiated a ‘revelation’ stating that blacks could then hold the priesthood.

The Bible says that God is not a respecter of persons, but the Mormon church is: First in its prejudice of the blacks for being black, and second in its succumbing to political and social pressure to change its doctrinal views. Is such a church really from God?

I am greatly indebted to the book Mormonism Shadow or Reality by Jerald and Sandra Tanner for the sources cited above.


979 posted on 01/25/2008 12:07:50 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: DelphiUser

Mormonism Unveiled:
Eyewitness testimonies against Joseph Smith

Mormonism Unveiled is a book written in 1834 by E. D. Howe. It was printed and published by the author. The copyright on it is long expired so I am free to reproduce the information here.
Mormonism Unveiled can be considered the first ‘anti-Mormon’ work. It is an examination of the teachings of Mormonism existing at that time and claims to contain eye-witness accounts and sworn affidavits by those who knew the family of Joseph Smith. If this is true, then we can actually read what people who knew Smith and his family had to say about their character, manners, disposition, etc. These written accounts, gathered by a Mr. Philastus Hurlbut and included in the book by Howe, were taken under oath and before judges and justices of the peace, are legal documents, and worthy of examination regarding Joseph Smith’s character.
Howe said,

We have not only testimony impeaching the moral characters of the Smith family, but we show by the witnesses, that they told contradictory stories, from time to time, in relation to their finding the plates, and other circumstances attending it, which go clearly to show that none of them had the fear of God before their eyes, but were moved and instigated by the devil. (Mormonism Unveiled, p. 232.).

Of course, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) repudiates the claims of Howe and the testimonies of the witnesses by stating they are not trustworthy since they had an agenda hostile to the Smith family and are, therefore, prejudiced. This sword cuts both ways since that would then invalidate anything from Mormon sources that support the idea that Smith’s character was admirable since they too would be authored by those with an agenda.
Also, it is alleged that statements from Mormon scholars and, they claim non-Mormon scholars, validate the proposition that Howe himself wrote the affidavits against Smith. The proofs offered from these scholars are, from what I have seen, opinions dealing with alleged similarities in style of the testimonies. But, I see no evidence of this as I read the testimonies. Also, note that many of the testimonies are purported to have been made under oath, before judges, and pastors. It would be up to the LDS church to prove that these are all lies. They haven’t yet, so far as I am aware.
The Mormons must attempt to repudiate the eye-witness accounts against Joseph Smith. Because, if Smith’s character is shown to be untrustworthy, it would cast a huge shadow of doubt over Mormonism as a whole. The LDS church does not want this.
But, these testimonies are not needed to cast a doubt upon Mormonism’s validity. Doubt is automatically cast when the doctrines of Mormonism come to light and are compared to the Bible. For example: God used to be a man on another world; he has a goddess wife; they both have bodies; they produce spirit children; Jesus, Satan, you and I are all brothers and sisters from the spirit realm; a good temple-worthy Mormon has the hope of becoming a god of his own world with his own wife with whom he can populate that planet, etc. Such doctrines defy common sense but are gradually swallowed, bit by bit, by those who do not know God’s word, nor possess true spiritual discernment, and are slowly led astray by the teachers of Mormonism.
I leave these testimonies for your examination.


980 posted on 01/25/2008 12:09:34 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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