Evangelicals Against Mitt

The American Spectator ^ | 1/3/2008 | Carrie Sheffield

[tantiboh]

Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.

The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.

...

THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.

...

ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."

...

Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.

...

The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.

Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

[dmw]

You talk a good game by using the same language Christian’s use. You’ve got it down real good I’ll give you that. I’ve never seen a Mormon speak Christianeese like you do. You say all of the right words but if you believe the BOM to be truth it makes not one wit of difference how well you speak Christianeese. It’s an oxymoron to say you believe in Jesus (in the biblical sense) and at the same time believe the BOM and doctrines of LDS. As much as you may like to believe that you can be a Christian and a Mormon at the same time, I’m afraid you have no biblical basis to back that up. You would have to refute a lot of your own Mormon beliefs to say that you are a Christian. The two are simply not compatible. Now, if you are a MINO (Mormon in Name Only), and your purpose for being in the Mormon church is to lead Mormons into the truth of God’s Word, then I can understand why you would want to remain a Mormon. Somehow, I don’t think that’s the case with you though.

As much as you would like to believe that you are preaching the same gospel as Christians are, and as sincere as you may be at doing it, I’m afraid you are sincerely wrong in your beliefs. There is a great danger in what you are doing because the consequences are quite serious.

Galatians 1:7-10
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

These scriptures make it pretty clear that preaching any other gospel other than that of the Bible can lead to serious consequences—for eternity.

It’s not surprising that so many people are deceived today, especially those in the Mormon religion. As this scripture below points out, it isn’t surprising that God’s servants masquerade as servants of light, because Satan, the great deceiver himself, masquerades as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Again, we see that the end results for believing this lie leads to serious consequences, “their end will be what their actions deserve”.

Speaking of being deceived by an angel of light, I believe this account from JS himself clearly shows just how deceived he was.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

I would think that someone who loves God as much as you seemingly do would want to know, without a shadow of doubt, that you were not being deceived by a false religion that masquerades itself as an angel of light. If you would spend two or three months reading and studying ONLY the Bible, and praying and asking God to reveal His truth to you, I have no doubt that He would do exactly that. The question is, do you really want Him to reveal the truth to you knowing where it might lead? If you do, I challenge you to do this and see where it leads you.

By the way, it is interesting how the Mormons have tried to convince non-Mormons that they are the same as Christians. That hasn’t always been the case. As we can see from the above account from JS, he wrote that all religions other than the Mormon church were wrong. Mormons have always taught that their church was the only true church. The prophets of the Mormon church have repeated this again and again since LDS was founded. Why would the Mormons, after years of teaching one thing, now want to make themselves appear as they are no different than mainline evangelical churches? Many of the Mormon beliefs and doctrines have changed over the years since the church began. Talk about the ultimate “makeover program”. The Mormons were into this makeover stuff before their was ever a makeover program on TV. Perfect example of how Satan operates and how he continue to deceive people into believing lies instead of truth.

Again, I encourage you to get your Bible out and study it without any other books or reading materials. Pray that God reveal His truth to you and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to your heart with an open mind. If you did this with all sincerity and honesty, I believe that you will be able to discern what is truth and what is false.

[DarthVader]

You don’t follow God my friend and may God have mercy on you for having spread a false gospel of the Latter Day Saints and leading others astray. I am not condemning you to hell but sharing with you the consequences of you following your cult with its damnable heresies. You are following religious demons as do Hindus, Muslims and others. You don’t have to feel sorry for me as my salvation rests in the one and true living God. I feel sorry for you and pray for your release from the grip of the Devil. My brother in Christ, dmw has answered this question about Satan well enough in post#681

[DelphiUser]

Refer to 2 Peter 2. Your false prophet Joseph Smith is leading all that follow his doctrines to perdition.

Let me make this simple for you

1. God answers prayers because he said he would.
2. Satan cannot stop (or even slow down) God.
3. The Bible gives a formula by which we can know if an answer is of God.

First John 4:1-3

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Please explain how I can pray to God, and get an answer that contains what the Bible says it should to be from God and yet you say it is from the devil. If what you are telling me disagrees with the Bible, guess who I am going to believe...

I prayed about the Book of Mormon, and I got a witness from God that contained both a testimony of the Book of Mormon, and a Testimony that Jesus is my savior, that he came upon the earth and suffered for my sins, and that only through him have I any hope of being saved.

You can damn me to Hell all you want, for in the grand scheme of things your opinion just does not matter, Jesus' does, and you are not him.

Oh, by the way, have a nice day, don't forget to pray.

[DelphiUser]

I and all other Christians ignore all evidence from false prophets and rebuke them. The rejection that you are receiving from other Christians does not come from the flesh but by the Word of God.

Really?

The indwelling spirit which continually testifies to me of Christ, tells me otherwise, Oh well, I know in whom I have believed so you are as tinkling silver, or sounding brass.

[DarthVader]

You are confessing the Mormon Christ not the Biblical one. You cannot serve both as they are theologically different. As dmw is telling you in Post#682 you are in conflict. You cannot be both Mormon and Christian in the true sense of the Word. You are double-minded as the theologies are different. If you are a true Christian you would have to renounce Mormonism. You cannot provoke God to jealousy.

http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=1330

[DarthVader]

The indwelling spirit you have is a religious demon as it makes you embrace the false testimony of the Book Of Mormon. That comes from the true power of the Holy Spirit that is within me. It is called the gift of discernment or the ability to distinguish bewtween spirits.

[DelphiUser]

Jesus Christ is not your savior but one of the false Christs which Jesus said would come in his name and deceive many.

Unsupported assertion = waste of electrons.

“Not everyone who comes to me who says Lord, Lord shall enter into my kingdom but he that does the will of my Father in heaven.”

Doesn't your scripture quote kind of kill the whole saved by Grace alone thing? "but he that does the will of my Father in heaven" Also, notice, it's not but he who does my will... Hmm

IMHO the whole Bible is a testament of God and Jesus as separate entities who are so one that they are one God. In Genesis, as someone pointed out earlier, man and woman are Joined into one flesh, yet remain separate people. So this is definitely a Biblical concept. Why is it so hard for you to accept that hundreds of years after Jesus came a pagan sun worshiper who tinkered with the Church's teachings for political reasons might have gotten it wrong? Constantine stated that he did not care what out come there was, except that it needed to be more palatable to the Greeks and the Hellenists.

You Mormons have subverted the truth of the original Bible and are in for a rude awakening.

Fine, I'll try this one more time with a section from my home page here.

---

The trinity became the creed of the Catholic Church at The first council at Nicea:

The Trinity is the doctrine of the Nicene creed so called because it was agreed upon at the First council at Nicea in 325 AD

So about 300 years after Jesus, the Catholic Church is going to meet and decide what form God has if any.

Knowing god's nature is important if you are to worship him? (John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.)

As Mormon I note with interest that he did not say, "And this is life eternal, that they might know me the only true God". Because Jesus is talking about someone besides himself someone who disappears completely in the Nicean creed.

Mormons believe that one of the places that we can most easily see the apostasy happening is the first council at Nicea which was convened to reconcile the Arian controversy So Constantine could use this new "Christian" religion to unify his fractured Roman Empire The Trinity was the creation of a pagan emperor named Constantine, who called the first council at Nicea and with a combination of bribes, and threats got the church to agree on a creed that all of Rome could unite behind. This was his expressed purpose according to records he had kept of the event.

Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius depreciating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay.

And

The Council was opened by Constantine with the greatest solemnity. The emperor waited until all the bishops had taken their seats before making his entry. He was clad in gold and covered with precious stones in the fashion of an Oriental sovereign. A chair of gold had been made ready for him, and when he had taken his place the bishops seated themselves. After he had been addressed in a hurried allocution, the emperor made an address in Latin, expressing his will that religious peace should be re-established.

And

The emperor began by making the bishops understand that they had a greater and better business in hand than personal quarrels and interminable recriminations.

Lastly

St. Athanasius assures us that the activities of the Council were nowise hampered by Constantine's presence.

Now let's put all this in the context of the day. Constantine had just finally put down the other military leaders of a fractured empire. In spite of Christianity being illegal, it had grown in popularity (or maybe even because it was illegal) Constantine sends letters to these bishops (who are under a death sentence just for being Christians) and invites them to a conference, moreover, he puts "Public transportation" at their disposal to get to the conference with. (Public transportation means military horses and Chariots, there was no bus)

Now on top of all this he tells them that one of the topics of the conference will be making the Catholic church the sate church of Rome.

Carrot and Stick are now clearly (I hope) visible to all who read this.

The bishops meet and Constantine tells them to come to a consensus on the nature of God (the Arian Controversy) and when they do, he makes them the state church. However, there are a few conditions, he wants a definition of God that everyone can accept, and thus we have the Greek religions influence in to the Nicene Creed.

Mormons believe that this is the single biggest step into apostasy that can be documented as happening at an exact point in time.

---

This can be seen at this Link

You can jump up and down and say sophomoric chants about how wrong we are, or you can actually do some research, the documents that I quote are linked, and come from the Catholic encyclopedia on line. (It's not a"Mormon" source) thus it's not "Mormon propaganda" this is what the Catholic church says happened back then.

Reality IS align yourself with it, before it aligns you for you.

[DarthVader]

Read post #682 again. Mormonsim is a cult and heresy plain and simple. There is no amount of apologetics or reasoning that you can do that will tell the true Christian world otherwise. You cannot embrace both the Book Of Mormon and the Bible. You will have to choose one or the other because they are in conflict with each other.

[Eva]

I’m not a Mormon, but I am shocked that this type of attack on religion is being allowed on FreeRepublic. They wouldn’t allow us to say this type of thing about the Religion of Peace, but they allow serial attacks on Mormonism. It’s embarrassing to think that I am a part of this forum.

[DarthVader]

Reread post#681 too and heed what dmw is telling you. It is the truth.

[Dan(9698)]

I have the Bible, and it is quite clear on the matter.

We are in full agreement on that.

I believe the same as the Saints of the Apostolic Church.

I was just giving an independant referance that shows we are in agreement.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

----------------------------------------

In the remaining New Testament writings numerous passages attest how clear and definite was the belief of the Apostolic Church in the three Divine Persons.

In certain texts the coordination of Father, Son, and Spirit leaves no possible doubt as to the meaning of the writer.

Thus in 2 Corinthians 13:13, St. Paul writes: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all."

Here the construction shows that the Apostle is speaking of three distinct Persons. Moreover, since the names God and Holy Ghost are alike Divine names, it follows that Jesus Christ is also regarded as a Divine Person.

But apart from passages such as these, where there is express mention of the Three Persons, the teaching of the New Testament regarding Christ and the Holy Spirit is free from all ambiguity.

The doctrine as to the Holy Spirit is equally clear. That His distinct personality was fully recognized is shown by many passages.

------------------------------------------------------

That is not from anything written by a Mormon. It is an expression of the beliefs of the Apostolic Church.

Now that we are in agreement as to this teaching, you can stop bashing and go do something useful.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: “Go ahead and return to damning people to Hell against the Command not to judge and show us what a good Christian you are by breaking his commands.”

U Said: Logic has nothing to to this

Your posts give ample evidence to your belief in illogic.

How old are you? Does your Dad know you are using his login?

U Said: but Truth does and you people follow lies from a false prophet who is damned.

You know, nothing makes my morning like getting damned to hell before breakfast, that's why I eat brunch, well off to eat...

U Said: People who whole heartedly follow false prophets are so as well.

Yeah we got that, is damning me to hell twice supposed to make the flames hotter or something?

U Said: Being a good Christian is having a love for the Truth of God’s Word and saying things that are unpopular.

But what you are saying is popular, and denies the truth an logic apparent in the Scriptures...

U Said: Paul said knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men to repent.

But does it? Today you won't even listen to reason, you say it does not matter, you say that Logic has no place in the Scriptures. Let me quote you one of my favorites about repentance:

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Reason together, sounds like logic to me. My Definition of God says he is reasonable, and Logical, for he knows all. Only those who lack knowledge need to be illogical to make their points.

U Said: You Mormons follow another Gospel and Christians who warn you are not doing this to be mean but to get you to follow the true Gospel Of Christ.

OK, If the Scriptures are True (and they are) and there was a prophesy of an apostasy (and there was) then the Gospel will need to be restored to the earth.
(Yes there are scriptures that say the church will never be destroyed, but it has been destroyed OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH many times and had to be restored from heaven where it will never be destroyed.)

U Said: We are merely reiterating the words of our forefathers Peter, Paul and the rest who were good Christians.

First of all iterate means to repeat. It is an indication of lower education to use a'int, reiterate and funner. you don't win people to your cause by seeming to be uneducated. At the same time if you elucidate your ideas with such obscure with elocution that those who would support you are left in a quandary, you will likewise have a smaller following than you would have if you behaved in a less erudite fashion.

Now, as to your point, you are not repeating the words of the prophets, you are interpreting them (which does include repeating them, but also adding meanings that were not there originally, like the Trinity). U Said: You can’t handle the fact of being exposed for the frauds you are by the truth of the Scriptures and you may have spiritual experiences but they do not come from God.

Great! Expose me! Actually read the scriptures, actually find a scripture that says Satan can answer a prayer to God. Find a scripture that says the word "Trinity" in the KJV Bible, find me a scripture that says there will never be another prophet. Come on, do something besides smugly declare that you have "won" and needn't debate your points. You look silly for doing that, and not just to me, the Lurkers are laughing at your posts that say "Logic has nothing to to this". U Said: The Bible is clear on this.

Yes, it is, and you clearly have not red or understood it, the Bible is very clear on God and Christ being separate beings, you must wrest the scriptures in order to wind up with the Trinity where God and Christ are if the same substance. Only someone who was raised with that twisted philosophy can think it's normal. I have even graduated from a Buddhist monastery, and non christians who read the Bible, think Trinitarian are nuts. Anyone with out the twisted perspective of one raised in a cult could think the Bible says "Trinity" when it does not.

I leave you with one last scripture:

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus himself gives this analogy of his oneness with the Father, and the oneness the apostles are to achieve. (they do not become of the same substance, but one in heart, might, mind and strength).

I sincerely hope you have a nice day and think about the Bible you are reading, why would god write it so that it could not be understood?

[DarthVader]

Blah!! Blah!! Talk about whose being sophomoric. Your having a tantrum because you can’t handle the truth of the Word of God which is searing your conscience and bringing you under massive conviction.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Reread Post#681 and learn. Heretics like yourself cannot be apologetics.

[Dan(9698)]

Darth, I thought you fell off the face of the earth.

Do you remember this post?

Has the doctrine of the Trinity changed or is that line of reasoning trash from Mormon apologetics?

I assure you that the Apostle Paul wrote what is in the New Testament attributed to him. He is not a Mormon apologetic, and the quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia wasn't written by a Mormon.

There is no twisting of the words, there aren't enough words to twist.

What line of reasoning explains the change?

I showed my references for my contention. If your contention is just going to be Mormon Bashing, it won't accomplish anything.

The Words say what they say. Just because they aren't what you usually hear does not mean they don't say what they say.

You were going to furnish some independent references for where your doctrine came from.

How about it? or are you just going to keep being a Drive By Basher. Disappear and surface somewhere else with the same old unsupported statements?

[Osage Orange]

Ummm... The whole thing. It’s a church. Churches are charities.

ROFLOL!!!

You are either extremely naive or you aren't being truthful. Most of LD$, Inc's businesses don't even QUALIFY as charities under tax laws.

The Church does control ventures designed to further its own interests - communications, publishing, food production, etc. If the LDS Church were out to make money for the sake of the profits, wouldn’t it be in software? Oil? Stock brokering? Something more lucrative than cattle ranching?

Do you know that LD$, Inc. has a huge stock portfolio? Yes, they do. Look it up.

Do you know what the price of cattle has been for the last 5 years? And they ain't giving those beef away either. You obviously know little about cattle ranching......

Do you know how much money the LD$, Inc. hotels, restaurants and malls rake in.

Do you know what the total assets of LD$ Inc. is?

Is the mormon church more about building up riches here on earth? Sure seems like it. They have assets in the BILLIONS of dollars...but give away less than 3% to charity.

Good grief, am I talking to an eggplant here?

LOL!!!

Nope...but I think I'm talking to a sucker.

[Osage Orange]

I did not say I had never attacked that way,

Then say what you mean, and mean what you say.

[greyfoxx39]

new tagline...thanks.

[Osage Orange]

Dang it! now you went and Got me all curious, last time this happened, my cat died, and I got away with minor injuries, what the sam hill are you talking about?

Sorry about your cat.

If you had any intellectual curiosity you could look it up yourself....

[Doohickey]

Q: What's the difference between a secular liberal nanny-state busybody and an "evangelical"?

A: There really isn't any.

[Diamond]

Jesus is my Lord, in keeping with his commands, I will not judge you...

Jesus is your Lord?

Deuteronomy 4:35, "...Jehovah, he is Elohim...".

Psalm 100:3, "Know that JEHOVAH he is ELOHIM. It is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture."

I Kings 18:39 - "Jehovah, he is Elohim."

You're a Mormon. You don't believe that Jehovah is Elohim, do you?

Cordially,