Evangelicals Against Mitt

The American Spectator ^ | 1/3/2008 | Carrie Sheffield

[tantiboh]

Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.

The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.

...

THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.

...

ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."

...

Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.

...

The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.

Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Chirp....chirp....chirp

[vaudine]

I talked to two evangelical friends in FL today. Thry looked at Huckleberry at first, but I clued them in about his socialism. They liked Fred; now they are voting for Mitt. My friends are a retired couple and he is a retired AoG minister.

We knew some Mormons in svc. and they were very kind and helpful people. I have been to a Mormon funeral and found it in some ways like a regular Protestant funeral; but with some strange (to me) twists and turns.

vaudine

[tantiboh]

You tread shaky ground. There are a lot of people on this thread ready to “re-educate” you that Mormons don’t worship the same Jesus as you do.

I do agree with your points, however.

[MHGinTN]

You really should give the link a try. It is a beautiful rendition by the man who wrote the score to the movie. Morricone also wrote the scores to movies like Once Upon A Time In The West, and Le Professional. He is the man who made Eastwoods spaghetti westerns so fabulous with his music in scores like A Fist Full Of Dollars.

[tantiboh]

An observant JW cannot be in the military. I never claimed Eisenhower was observant.

His church membership was what it was. The historical fact is that he did not officially move to a different denomination until after his inauguration. Period. Plain. Simple. That is not a lie, as you have claimed. It is fact.

In our many months of discourse, CC, I never though that you would have such difficulty distinguishing a fact from a lie. But, then, with the propaganda you’ve bought into regarding the evils of Mormonism, I suppose it is only to be expected.

We’re not getting anywhere in this discussion. For me, it’s over.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Just respond. I’m getting tired of hearing these crickets. Are you in opposition to this article of the consitution or not. Real easy. (By the way I did listen, pretty nice)

[MHGinTN]

You don’t have to live down to your chosen name.

[tantiboh]

Your distaste of Mormonism has metastasized into outright paranoid kookery. Sad. We used to have such thoughtful conversations.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You don’t have to live down to your chosen name.

zzzzzzzzzz I've never hear anything like that before. Nice job.

[MHGinTN]

That article of the Constitution has zero bearing on whom you will vote for or not on a personal choice level. Didn’t you know?

[greyfoxx39]

Placemark and agreement.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

That article of the Constitution has zero bearing on whom you will vote for or not on a personal choice level. Didn’t you know?

You're big on spiritual things. Take into consideration the spirit in which the article was written.

[colorcountry]

The historical fact is that he did not officially move to a different denomination until after his inauguration. Period. Plain. Simple. That is not a lie, as you have claimed. It is fact.

Nope, you've still not posted one simple, single shred of evidence that Eisenhower was JW. Even by Jehovah Witness standards and records only his mother was. All you've shown me is that he joined the Presbyterian Church 12 days after his inauguration

It isn't even a good try tantiboh. Then you switch to an ad hominem. Nothing new.

[greyfoxx39]

I will now bring another note into this conversation.

Obama runs away with SC primary

Is it all about race?

Saturday, January 26, 2008

Is it all about race?   

Some people have pointed out that Obama did better among whites than one poll anticipated. Fine. That's not my point, though. Just look at this and ask yourself what is the clearest determining factor of whether someone voted for Obama or for someone else.

Obama's support among....

White Men: 27 percent

White Women: 22 percent

Black Men: 80 percent

Black Women: 77 percent

The determining factor in how people voted was race. Not that this is a good thing — and really, I can't see how any liberal would prefer Clinton to Obama — but that's the way it went down today in South Carolina among Democratic voters.

 

This election may very well hinge on the race issue. There is a very good chance that Hillary will not be the democrat nominee. There is also a very good chance that if Romney is the nominee, a good percentage of Evangelicals will stay home.

Just what will the MSM make of the racist past of the mormon church in their attempt to see that there is a democrat being sworn in as President in January 2008?

Just what kind of ads will be forthcoming from the Obama campaign? Little snippets like the following: “I don’t see anything further that we need to do. I don’t hear any complaint from our black brethren and sisters. I hear only appreciation and gratitude wherever I go.” - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, “Mormon Leader Defends Race Relations,” Los Angeles Times, September 12, 1998

"It's [LDS racism] behind us. Look, that's behind us. Don't worry about those little flicks of history."

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, 60 Minutes Interview with Mike Wallace

Just a little "flick of history"..what a campaign visual.

There is SUCH gnashing of teeth here regarding BIGOTRY, but what about when the mormons are on the receiving end of the bigotry accusation?

You have White Men: 27 percent, and White Women: 22 percent from the above article voting for Obama...THAT'S in the SOUTH, people! Then you have approximately 20 percent of Evangelicals that have stated in poll after poll they will not vote for a mormon.

If you think Mitt Romney is going win the general election, you are drinking the kool-aid.

[greyfoxx39]

Think GENERAL ELECTION

Caroline Kennedy has endorsed Obama.

[fproy2222]

These Mormon stalkers have been around for years on the FR’s religious threads bashing any individual who would care to listen. They’re just visiting over here in the “news” sections since a Mormon is running for president. They believe its their ministry.

++++++++++++++++++++

The more threads I read in FR, the more I think it is being taken over by the intolerant right, not just the intolerant religious.

[Das Outsider]

The LDS Church rejects the Doctrine of the Trinity. We do not believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one in substance. We believe that they are three separate beings, each possessing attributes of divinity, meaning that each possesses the power and authority of God. We do believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one of purpose, power, and authority.

I'll first thank you for an articulate and thoughtful response, tantiboh. That's precisely what I was looking for. You and Dan have been good sports.

The issue of the doctrine of the Trinity ultimately goes back to whether or not Christ is "one" with the Father in that he is of the same substance, or whether is of "like" substance, doesn't it? I can't help but see how this doesn't go back to the essential nature of Christ.

If you don't mind, I'll take each of your responses to my earlier questions separately, tantiboh, so that we can deal with these questions on a point-by-point basis, instead of writing two-page-long posts in an attempt to answer five or six questions at once. Your responses to my responses--we're starting to sound like lawyers here, aren't we?--will be addressed in the same manner, as best I can. ;)

Last of all, it should be noted that the original question of Jesus came about from Jo Nuvark's statement that Mormons do not believe in the same Christ as Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran, etc., Christians do. I think it's only fair that she should be involved, as she did make that statement.

What do you guys think?

[GOPPachyderm]

Ahhh. thank you for clarifying that

[Colofornian]

...well from what I’ve seen and heard, Romney worships the same JESUS as I do...

Official Mormon leaders didn't agree with you over a 25-year period, 1977-2002.

For one thing, Christians worship THE Son of God; LDS believe Jesus was a son of God...just like Mitt said in early December that "everyone is a child of God." [to LDS, even the anti-Christ is a "son of God" born in the pre-existent world as a spirit to Heavenly Father; likewise, LDS even think Satan was a "child of God"--a younger spirit brother to elder Jesus)

Do LDS think they worship the same Jesus as Christians? Let's let them speak for themselves:

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26

According to an LDS publication, President Gordon B. Hinckley bore his testimony describing Christ in Geneva, Switzerland at an LDS gathering of five stakes in France and Switzerland on 6 June 1998; the LDS Church News then published the quote a few weeks later. The article reads: In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times.

Four years later, Hinckley said the following: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. (Gordon B. Hinckley, "We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.)

[Dan(9698)]

Elsie sent several links to pages in the Catholic Encyclopedia. I have been reviewing information on those pages.

I have found some passages that will be helpful to determine what was taught during the years of the Apostles and some writings of others who have researched this.

I am willing to share what I am finding.

I wanted to find information that was not from "Mormon" sources as well as not from "Mormon Bashers".

Not that it wouldn't be interesting what each has to say, I just wanted to find what other information is available.