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To: kipita
"Given a choice, 98% of people will select religious/ethnic/tribal identity over a “much better” alternative. "

I'm a pretty fundamental Christian, but Scott Peck once wrote that if you examined Christian "sin" completely outside of the strictures of relgion, you end up with "humans getting what they want the easy way." That is, smash and grab the stereo from the store, kill somebody and take their stuff, con somebody out of what they earned by work, that kind of thing.

It is a fundamental statemenet of human nature that in the Eden parable, when Adam & Eve were presented with the directive that they could never eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that neither of them ever said "Why?" The urge to do the crafty thing (and steal it) is written in our human DNA...left alone to our "Nature", humans will most often choose the easy way, the crafty way. Only being aware of our shortcomings will allow us to overcome them.

Love you homepage by the way.

34 posted on 01/04/2008 5:46:05 AM PST by 50sDad (Liberals: Never Happy, Never Grateful, Never Right.)
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To: 50sDad
Given a choice, 98% of people will select religious/ethnic/tribal identity over a “much better” alternative.

Love you homepage by the way.

Yes, I tend to think that 98% of humans are predictable products of genetics and conditioning and just maybe the remaining 2% are where the battle between "Good vs. Evil" is fought but Twain's "a lie can travel half way around the world before the truth has a chance to put is shoes on" gives evil a chance but "time fears no one" means Good will eventually win. So, in this sense, I like a Spock from Star Trek trapped on Earth and trying to understand her complexities.

35 posted on 01/04/2008 5:58:57 AM PST by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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To: 50sDad
I'm a pretty fundamental Christian, but Scott Peck once wrote that if you examined Christian "sin" completely outside of the strictures of relgion, you end up with "humans getting what they want the easy way." That is, smash and grab the stereo from the store, kill somebody and take their stuff, con somebody out of what they earned by work, that kind of thing.

It is a fundamental statemenet of human nature that in the Eden parable, when Adam & Eve were presented with the directive that they could never eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that neither of them ever said "Why?" The urge to do the crafty thing (and steal it) is written in our human DNA...left alone to our "Nature", humans will most often choose the easy way, the crafty way. Only being aware of our shortcomings will allow us to overcome them.

This will be my first and probably last time specifically talking about Religion but I tend to think it’s important so here goes…..

I tend to think Religion and all of the various forms of human identities (including intellectualism & atheism) are similar to trying to wake up in the morning with a rope and trying to capture all of the power of the sun an use this power for your individual benefit and naturally for the benefit of the group(s) to which you belong. However, since we are individual humans and have to live with 6 billion other humans, it’s probably best to select the best identity that meets your interest. In a socially Darwinistic sense, the best identity will thrive if people are free to choose.

At a personal level, as a mixed race American, I tend to think America is best for working and Europe is best for raising a family because America suffers from too much “negative Africanism influences”, “too much negative Hispanic influences”, “too much negative Asian influences” and too much “pure white influences”.

At a sexual level, I tend to think men are to "looking at a woman's body and constanty thinking sex" and "pornography" as woman are to "the same sexuality as men and maybe more but with higher emotions and feelings of love that's like capturing the sun for men to understand".

At a philosophical level, I would never, ever, under no circumstances, want to live in a perfect world. I like the personal daily battle between "good" vs "evil" and learning mostly through failure.

45 posted on 01/05/2008 6:00:32 AM PST by kipita (“Love” is to humanity as gravitons are to an infinite # of universes.)
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