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The Rising Sea Dragon in Asia (PLAN) - 2008 Update
The Rising Sea Dragon in Asia ^ | January 2, 2008 | Jeff Head

Posted on 01/01/2008 9:26:12 PM PST by Jeff Head

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To: griffin

But the carrier can project a 1000 miles out and the frigate cannot. It takes a long time to make it into shooting range while aircraft are making repeated sorties at you.


61 posted on 01/02/2008 1:30:19 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Jeff Head

Excellent work, sir.


62 posted on 01/02/2008 1:35:15 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: AuntB

Good to see all those TVs and toasters we buy supporting the PLA


63 posted on 01/02/2008 1:39:27 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The bottom line on any navy's performance comes down to the training of the crew PLUS how they handle actual combat and how they handle combat damage control. China's Navy has no experience in either of these.

So, if it came to them... going toe to toe with the US Navy, they may get in a lick or two--

But overall... the PLAN does not have a Chinaman's chance.

64 posted on 01/02/2008 1:43:22 PM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: AppyPappy

The info I saw was older but...

...I see from a quick search that the chinese are developing a LACM “Hongniao 3” with a range of 2500 to 3000 km. If they can develop the fire control and guidance to the point of adapting it for surface vessels, that is a significant land attack offensive capability. With advance fleet defenses utilizing reactive armor missile systems, it seems to me this could be a viable, modern land attack platform.


65 posted on 01/02/2008 1:56:47 PM PST by griffin (Love Jesus, No Fear!)
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To: Bender2

How much actual naval combat....and especially damage control experience does our existing fleet leadership possess? Seems like we have alot of historical experience, but not much more than that in major naval combat. I’m sure the Chinese have studied just as our officers have.

We might have had experience launching alot of sorties from way out in conditions where we maintain air superiority, and some amphibian experience against less than heavy defenses...but is that enough to give us such an advantage that we don’t need to be concerned?


66 posted on 01/02/2008 2:02:57 PM PST by griffin (Love Jesus, No Fear!)
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To: Bender2

I don’t see actual combat or damage control experience for Adm. Roughead.....I’m sure he is a great officer and I couldn’t hold a stick to him....but as far as combat experience...what COMBAT EXPERIENCE advantage does Roughead have over his PLAN counterpart other than probable better American education and better training?

“Admiral Gary Roughead became Commander, U.S. Fleet Forces Command on May 17, 2007. He is responsible for providing manned, trained, and equipped Navy operating forces ready for tasking by Combatant Commanders worldwide and leads development of Fleet capabilities requirements for the Chief of Naval Operations. He is the supporting commander to U.S. Joint Forces Command for Navy global force management, and is the Navy supporting component to U.S. Northern Command and U.S. Strategic Command.

Adm. Roughead is a 1973 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a Surface Warfare Officer. His initial assignment was in the Weapons Department in USS Josephus Daniels. This was followed by duty as Executive Officer in the patrol gunboats USS Douglas and USS Tacoma, the former home ported in Naples, Italy. He was the commissioning Chief Engineer in USS O’Bannon and Executive Officer in USS Spruance.

Tours ashore include assignments as Flag Lieutenant to Commander, Naval Surface Force, U.S. Atlantic Fleet; the Surface Warfare Analyst at the Navy’s Office of Program Appraisal; Administrative Aide to the Secretary of the Navy; Executive Assistant to the Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Pacific Command; Commandant, United States Naval Academy; and the Department of the Navy’s Chief of Legislative Affairs.

Adm. Roughead was the commissioning Commanding Officer of the Aegis destroyer USS Barry and upon assuming command of the Pearl Harbor based cruiser USS Port Royal, became the first naval officer to command both classes of Aegis ships. While he was in command, Port Royal was awarded a Meritorious Unit Commendation and received the Golden Anchor Award for excellence in retention and crew support programs. He was Commander, Cruiser Destroyer Group Two and the George Washington Battle Group, deploying to the Arabian Gulf and Mediterranean Sea; Commander, U.S. Second Fleet; and Commander, NATO Striking Fleet Atlantic and Commander, Naval Forces North Fleet East. He was the Deputy Commander, U.S. Pacific Command during the recent tsunami relief effort in South East Asia. Most recently, he served as Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet and Commander, Joint Task Force 519.

Adm. Roughead’s awards include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Navy Distinguished Service Medal, Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Meritorious Service Medal, Navy Commendation Medal, Navy Achievement Medal, and various unit and service awards.”


67 posted on 01/02/2008 2:13:59 PM PST by griffin (Love Jesus, No Fear!)
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To: griffin
In my semi-educated civilian opinion, it's the fast, if somewhat-weaker operational tempo that the carrier group allows versus the slower, haymaker tempo of both a missile-only SAG and long-range aircraft not based in-theater. It's pretty easy and quick to reload an aircraft and if it's in-theater, it's right back bombing or shooting incoming down; it isn't so easy or quick to reload a destroyer's magazines, and at least until hypersonic intercontinental aircraft come on-line, long-range bombers simply have to travel too long. Fortunately, the Navy has merged both the carrier group and missile-laden destroyers to allow the best of both worlds because they realize that nearby friendly bases aren't always going to be there.

The PLAN doesn't have to worry about that just yet. Taiwan is, barely, close enough to the PRC to allow land-based aircraft to keep up the skeer while the heavier hammer of missiles is reloaded.

Morever, their plan for the open ocean on the other side of Taiwan is much like that of the old Soviet Navy - sea denial by putting more missiles in the air than the USN can shoot down and decoy.

68 posted on 01/02/2008 2:18:42 PM PST by steveegg (I am John Doe, and a monthly donor)
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To: darth

Almost a year ago, I stopped buying anything made in China (that I could identify - fresh veggies and such are impossible to know). Believe me, it is extremely difficult to find ANYthing not made in China. But I refuse to give them anymore of my money.

Oh, and I stopped buying Wal-Mart brand food too. The label only reads “Distributed by Wal-Mart” but doesn’t state where the food is actually from.


69 posted on 01/02/2008 2:45:08 PM PST by CarolNTN
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To: griffin
Well, I guess we will just have to agree... to disagree.

Unless you want to take it... to the next level!

That is atomic hand grenades... at twenty paces

70 posted on 01/02/2008 5:46:42 PM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Duchess47; jahp; LilAngel; metmom; EggsAckley; Battle Axe; SweetCaroline; Grizzled Bear; ...
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(Please FReepmail me if you would like to be on or off of the list.)
71 posted on 01/02/2008 7:22:14 PM PST by JACKRUSSELL
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To: griffin

With the new reactors coming on line and their efficiency and unbelievable power potential, first on the new CVN-21 class carriers (starting with CVN 78), and potentially then later on the new CGX cruisers, some are indicating a potential for directed energy weapons for CIWS.


72 posted on 01/03/2008 9:28:33 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: griffin
A potential for weapons like this...the Mobile, Tactal High-Energy Laser, MTHEL:

Already tested successfully in a chemcial laser version as a joint venture between ourselves and Israel. The goal is to develop solid state, electrically powered versions.

A 100-kilowatt laser would need something like a 1 megawatt power input. The heat produced when the laser is fired will have to be removed to prevent damage. Lawrence-Livermore scientists have developed a way to rapidly cool the laser between firings without losing its structural integrity or lasing characteristics. The lab says the research team is on target for delivering a demonstration version by 2007 and potential deployable versions by 2011.

73 posted on 01/03/2008 9:42:01 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: pissant

Thank you.


74 posted on 01/03/2008 9:42:55 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: steveegg
You pass this stuff along to CDR Salamander yet?

Please do.

75 posted on 01/03/2008 9:43:41 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: ryan71

I wish we would build twelve of them for an interim solution.


76 posted on 01/03/2008 9:44:19 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: meadsjn
Just the same old same old my friend...just a little further down the line.

I pray we as a people will elect representatives and leaders who will do something about this (along with securing our borders, continuing to take the fight to the Islamic radicals and their supporters, and addressing the unborn holocaust here at home)...otherwise, the treasure we may well have to spend as regards Red China will one day not be measured in dollars and cents, but in blood.

Hope you and yours had a very Merry Christmas, and that you have a GREAT New Year!

77 posted on 01/03/2008 9:47:14 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Bender2

Would that be merely plain atomic hand grenades or holy atomic hand grenades? :)


78 posted on 01/03/2008 10:03:55 AM PST by griffin (Love Jesus, No Fear!)
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To: Jeff Head
We're doing great; not so sure about the nation.

Like someone in the above replies, the amphips are somewhat disconcerting. Subs and surface buildup might be excused as protection for sea lanes. The amphibs suggest otherwise.

79 posted on 01/03/2008 10:09:18 AM PST by meadsjn (Hey Spock, round off, partner!)
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To: griffin
Here's a link to Northrup-Grumman's July 2006 Press Release regarding Skyguard, which is the latest incarnation of the MTHEL.

SKYGUARD Laser Defense System

80 posted on 01/03/2008 10:11:29 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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