Posted on 01/01/2008 12:15:39 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
What in the world is going on with this? Either she died of a bullet wound or she didn’t.
Curiouser and curiouser...
If you don’t lie your arse off to begin with, you never need to apologize, later!
I don’t see what their angle on this is.
I never believed the sunroof story in the first place. I don't know why they even tried putting that out there. Now that the Interior Ministry is obviously involved in a cover-up, I wonder what their overall role in this really is.
Pinging jeffers for any additional information.
My experience with working with Pakistani people in the ME (15 yrs) was that the normal and acceptable thing to do, when confronted with any situation that might have personal repercussions, is to lie.
Now that sounds ignorant and probably racist (whatever that is today), but I speak from my own personal experience of numerous conversations and working relationships with Pakistanis.
When caught out in an obvious lie there is no remorse or shame. When I caught out an individual in this way I used to almost plead for an explanation, because I could not understand why anyone would lie rather than tell the truth, especially when the lie was so easily discovered.
The explanation went like this: ‘Why tell the truth at first? It is better to lie, then you can perhaps tell the truth later, if necessary. If you tell the truth right away, where else can you go?’ It is a pakistani culture thing, so don’t be surprised at incidents like this.
Even the spokespersons ‘...I am just an ignorant soldier and your are all brilliant, highly intelligent journalists’ line is part of the same communication construct to rationalize/explain/justify the untruth.
I eventually got used to it and adjusted my dealings with Pakistanis accordingly.
Islam is most probably the only religion in the world which allows lying (with certain conditions).You are not racist-muslims have a tendency to lie,though you can’t blame them for it-their prophet himself sanctioned it.
I work in the Middle East. I even work directly with a government ministry office. I understand the inclusion and acceptance of deception in the culture. What I don't understand is why that story in such a high profile indident, when it was pretty obvious that Ms. Butto had been shot.
As I understand the rough chronology, she was given a quick burial, then the story about the sunroof handle was pushed, then someone else in the government promised to allow the body to be exhumed if the party asks for it. I’m guessing that someone knows that an exhumed body will clearly show bullet wounds, and everyone will be watching real closely. Someone thinks it is better to say so now rather than wait for a possible exhumation.
I think that’s at least one way of explaining it.
-—in the government promised to allow the body to be exhumed if the party asks for it-—
I saw that earlier and it struck me! Wouldn’t it be a cause of major public unrest to disturb the body? I wondered why they would make that offer unless it was so that people would say, “Oh no! That won’t be necessary. We’ll accept your explanation, even if we don’t believe it.”
Hi Allegra
I follow your posts for your views, news and opinions, which I value highly as a person on the spot and involved. My work in the ME was within Governmental structures.
My take on your point is that there has probably been a left hand/right hand aspect to dealing with this particular matter at the relative short notice often required to get the body underground, for reasons we are all familiar with.
The masses had to have some appeasing story right away, as we all are aware the place is a powder keg. An early, but inaccurate, (panicky?) official statement was required to try to keep the situation cool. Not highly successful and perhaps from the ‘left hand’ source. Once the contrary evidence was so obvious from independent video, eyewitnesses etc, a more accurate ‘right hand’ version can be released once more concrete ‘stabilising measures’ have been put place to cope.
Your view?
I honestly don’t know what the normal cultural response would be to exhuming a body in Islamic/Pakistani context. Rapid burial I can understand and recognize.
Maybe the offer was a bluff, but the other side of the issue is calling it.
Here’s another interesting interpretation:
http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2008/01/separate-reality.html
Wretchard is always a good read.
I've found this sort of thing to be common amongst Arabs, too, both in and out of the Kingdom. It is considered "honorable" to lie, especially in business and especially if you get away with it. During my years at Ga Tech, both undergrad and grad school, I encountered many Arabs who thought it was perfectly okay to cheat their way through, too. I never got used to it, though......
Ditto....keep telling folks like it is! My 17 yrs in the ME backs you up 100%. it’s simple folks..Islam...never trust any and never believe a word they say.
The real question here is why were they so quick to bury her and why wasn’t there an autopsy. People say that religious law prohibited this but in a political murder like this, with global implications, that has to be set aside. Bhutto’s body must be exhumed and a proper forensic investigation performed by pathologists outside the control of the government before anybody can say how she died. Until this happens nothing the Pakistani government says can be trusted
Pakistani Crminal law requires an autopsy in cases of unnatural death.All the gibberish about Islamic countries not having autopsies is nonsense.There are 2 versions to what happened.One is that the chief police officer at the hospital refused to sanction an autopsy & that Benazir’s husband also refused to give consent(saying he didn’t trust the government).The legal provisions supposedly empower the police to order an autopsy irrespective of the family’s wishes.
Thats just natural human instinct anywhere my friend....
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