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To: Allegra

My experience with working with Pakistani people in the ME (15 yrs) was that the normal and acceptable thing to do, when confronted with any situation that might have personal repercussions, is to lie.

Now that sounds ignorant and probably racist (whatever that is today), but I speak from my own personal experience of numerous conversations and working relationships with Pakistanis.

When caught out in an obvious lie there is no remorse or shame. When I caught out an individual in this way I used to almost plead for an explanation, because I could not understand why anyone would lie rather than tell the truth, especially when the lie was so easily discovered.

The explanation went like this: ‘Why tell the truth at first? It is better to lie, then you can perhaps tell the truth later, if necessary. If you tell the truth right away, where else can you go?’ It is a pakistani culture thing, so don’t be surprised at incidents like this.

Even the spokespersons ‘...I am just an ignorant soldier and your are all brilliant, highly intelligent journalists’ line is part of the same communication construct to rationalize/explain/justify the untruth.

I eventually got used to it and adjusted my dealings with Pakistanis accordingly.


7 posted on 01/01/2008 1:01:27 AM PST by 5050 no line (Old ME hand)
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To: 5050 no line

Islam is most probably the only religion in the world which allows lying (with certain conditions).You are not racist-muslims have a tendency to lie,though you can’t blame them for it-their prophet himself sanctioned it.


8 posted on 01/01/2008 1:04:31 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: 5050 no line
The explanation went like this: ‘Why tell the truth at first? It is better to lie, then you can perhaps tell the truth later, if necessary. If you tell the truth right away, where else can you go?’ It is a pakistani culture thing, so don’t be surprised at incidents like this.

I work in the Middle East. I even work directly with a government ministry office. I understand the inclusion and acceptance of deception in the culture. What I don't understand is why that story in such a high profile indident, when it was pretty obvious that Ms. Butto had been shot.

9 posted on 01/01/2008 1:05:46 AM PST by Allegra (That midget hates it when I do that.)
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To: 5050 no line
I eventually got used to it and adjusted my dealings with Pakistanis accordingly.

I've found this sort of thing to be common amongst Arabs, too, both in and out of the Kingdom. It is considered "honorable" to lie, especially in business and especially if you get away with it. During my years at Ga Tech, both undergrad and grad school, I encountered many Arabs who thought it was perfectly okay to cheat their way through, too. I never got used to it, though......

16 posted on 01/01/2008 4:01:44 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Debates? Those weren't no stinkin' debates!)
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To: 5050 no line

Ditto....keep telling folks like it is! My 17 yrs in the ME backs you up 100%. it’s simple folks..Islam...never trust any and never believe a word they say.


17 posted on 01/01/2008 4:08:45 AM PST by rrrod
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To: 5050 no line
My experience with working with Pakistani people in the ME (15 yrs) was that the normal and acceptable thing to do, when confronted with any situation that might have personal repercussions, is to lie.

Thats just natural human instinct anywhere my friend....

20 posted on 01/01/2008 8:34:53 AM PST by Walker Texas Ranger
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To: 5050 no line

Not just Pakistani. It’s a Third World thing, but perfected in the Middle East. & I say this as a proud Middle Easterner.


31 posted on 01/01/2008 5:32:59 PM PST by forkinsocket
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To: 5050 no line
It is a pakistani culture thing, so don't be surprised at incidents like this. Even the spokespersons '...I am just an ignorant soldier and your are all brilliant, highly intelligent journalists' line is part of the same communication construct to rationalize/explain/justify the untruth. I eventually got used to it and adjusted my dealings with Pakistanis accordingly.

Telling jounalists they are intelligent is just telling one more lie!

:-)
44 posted on 01/01/2008 8:57:20 PM PST by cgbg ("2009-2017: Gnarled and ugly,loud and preachy, fiscally and morally depraved.")
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To: 5050 no line
Now that sounds ignorant and probably racist (whatever that is today), but I speak from my own personal experience of numerous conversations and working relationships with Pakistanis.

My last boss, a senior VP, was Pakistani as well. He was well-educated, came from a very prominent family and generally a decent guy. Unfortunately, he too had this trait you describe. He was a smooth talker and could always get himself out of self-inflicted binds, but it usually cost the company in wasted efforts or in client distrust.

56 posted on 01/02/2008 1:26:21 AM PST by Cementjungle
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