PRESS FORWARD MITT!
Bye Bye the NWO Huckapuppet you have Huckubeen
Posted on 12/29/2007 8:34:35 AM PST by greyfoxx39
Anti-Mormon literature tends to recycle the same themes. Some ministries are using a series of fifty questions, which they believe will help "cultists" like the Mormons. One ministry seems to suggest that such questions are a good way to deceive Latter-day Saints, since the questions "give...them hope that you are genuinely interested in learning more about their religion."
This ministry tells its readers what their real intent should be with their Mormon friend: "to get them thinking about things they may have never thought about and researching into the false teachings of their church." Thus, the questions are not sincere attempts to understand what the Latter-day Saints believe, but are a smokescreen or diversionary tactic to introduce anti-Mormon material.[1]
The questions are not difficult to answer, nor are they new. This page provides links to answers to the questions. It should be noted that the questions virtually all do at least one of the following:
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This was not a prophecy, but a command from God to build the temple. There's a difference. Jesus said people should repent; just because many didn't doesn't make Him a false messenger, simply a messenger that fallible people didn't heed.
Learn more here: Independence temple to be built "in this generation"
In Brigham (and Joseph's) day, there had been newspaper articles reporting that a famous astronomer had reported that there were men on the moon and elsewhere. This was published in LDS areas; the retraction of this famous hoax never was publicized, and so they may not have even heard about it.
Brigham and others were most likely repeating what had been told them by the science of the day. (Lots of Biblical prophets talked about the earth being flat, the sky being a dome, etc.—it is inconsistent for conservative Protestants to complain that a false belief about the physical world shared by others in their culture condemns Brigham and Joseph, but does not condemn Bible prophets.)
In any case, Brigham made it clear that he was expressing his opinion: "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is." Prophets are entitled to their opinions; in fact, the point of Brigham's discourse is that the only fanatic is one who insists upon clinging to a false idea.
The problem with "Adam-God" is that we don't understand what Brigham meant. All of his statements cannot be reconciled with each other. In any case, Latter-day Saints are not inerrantists—they believe prophets can have their own opinions. Only the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve can establish official LDS doctrine. That never happened with any variety of "Adam-God" doctrine. Since Brigham seemed to also agree with statements like Mormon 9:12, and the Biblical record, it seems likely that we do not entirely understand how he fit all of these ideas together.
Peter and the other apostles likewise misunderstood the timing of gospel blessings to non-Israelites. Even following a revelation to Peter, many members of the early Christian Church continued to fight about this point and how to implement it—even Peter and Paul had disagreements. Yet, Bible-believing Christians, such as the Latter-day Saints, continue to consider both as prophets. Critics should be careful that they do not have a double standard, or they will condemn Bible prophets as well.
The Latter-day Saints are not scriptural or prophetic inerrantists. They are not troubled when prophets have personal opinions which turn out to be incorrect. In the case of the priesthood ban, members of the modern Church accepted the change with more joy and obedience than many first century members accepted the extension of the gospel to the Gentiles without the need for keeping the Mosaic Law.
Believing Christians should be careful. Unless they want to be guilty of a double standard, they will end up condemning many Biblical prophets by this standard.
Most "contradictions" are actually misunderstandings or misrepresentations of LDS doctrine and teachings by critics. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.
The Saints believe they must be led by revelation, adapted to the circumstances in which they now find themselves. Noah was told to build an ark, but not all people required that message. Moses told them to put the Passover lamb’s blood on their door; that was changed with the coming of Christ, etc.
No member is expected to follow prophetic advice "just because the prophet said so." Each member is to receive his or her own revelatory witness from the Holy Ghost. We cannot be led astray in matters of importance if we always appeal to God for His direction.
The First Vision accounts are not contradictory. No early member of the Church claimed that Joseph changed his story, or contradicted himself. Critics of the Church have not been familiar with the data on this point.
The shortest answer is that the Saints believe the First Vision not because of textual evidence, but because of personal revelation.
The Church didn't really "choose" one of many accounts; many of the accounts we have today were in diaries, some of which were not known till recently (1832; 1835 (2); Richards, Neibaur). The 1840 (Orson Pratt) and 1842 (Orson Hyde) accounts were secondary recitals of what happened to the Prophet; the Wentworth letter and interview for the Pittsburgh paper were synopsis accounts (at best). The account which the Church uses in the Pearl of Great Price (written in 1838) was published in 1842 by Joseph Smith as part of his personal history. As new accounts were discovered they were widely published in places like BYU Studies.
This is a misunderstanding and caricature of LDS doctrine. There is, however, the Biblical doctrine that the apostles will help judge Israel:
Since the saints believe in modern apostles, they believe that those modern apostles (including Joseph) will have a role in judgment appointed to them by Jesus.
Those who condemn Joseph on these grounds must also condemn Peter and the rest of the Twelve.
This question is based on the mistaken assumption that the Bible message that Jesus is Christ and Lord is somehow "proved" by archeology, which is not true. It also ignores differences between Old and New World archeology. For example, since we don't know how to pronounce the names of ANY Nephite-era city in the American archeological record, how would we know if we had found a Nephite city or not?
The term "familiar spirit," quoted in the often-poetic Isaiah (and used by Nephi to prophesy about the modern publication of the Book of Mormon) is a metaphor, not a description of any text or its origin.
The critics need to read the next verses. The Book of Mormon says that God may command polygamy, just a few verses later. (Jac. 2:30).
Many Biblical prophets had more than one wife, and there is no indication that God condemned them. And, the Law of Moses had laws about plural wives—why not just forbid them if it was evil, instead of telling people how they were to conduct it?
And, many early Christians didn't think polygamy was inherently evil:
The critics have their history wrong. The change dates to 1837. The change was made by Joseph Smith in the 1837 edition of the Book of Mormon, though it was not carried through in some other editions, which mistakenly followed the 1830 instead of Joseph’s change. It was restored in the 1981 edition, but that was nearly 150 years after the change was made by Joseph.
This issue has been discussed extensively in the Church's magazines (e.g. the Ensign), and the scholarly publication BYU Studies.
In Alma, the reference is to Jesus Christ, who before His birth did not have a physical body.
John 4:24 does not say God is "a" spirit, but says "God is spirit." There is no "a" in the Greek. The Bible also says "God is truth" or "God is light." Those things are true, but we don't presume God is JUST truth, or JUST light—or JUST spirit.
As one non-LDS commentary puts it:
In the Bible, there are accounts of God commanding or approving less than complete disclosure. These examples seem to involve the protection of the innocent from the wicked, which fits the case of Abraham and his wife nicely.
The Bible also says that Bethlehem ("the city of David") is at Jerusalem. (2_Kings 14:20) Was the Bible wrong? (Bethlehem is in the direct area of Jerusalem, being only about seven miles apart.)
“So I can say that you caballers are simply following in Joseph Smiths foot steps?”
Just dress me up as a Lt. General, crown me king, give me twenty-five wives and a real estate monopoly, give me a magic peepstone, and put 2,000 Danites at my back and I’ll give it a whirl. But don’t be surprised if some Mormons object that I look a little foolish storming Salt Lake City. I’m sure you’ll be the first one on my side.
Bwahahahaha.
Scientologists have this deal where they accuse you of smearing Scientology if you ask how an e-meter works. It's something the Fund For Growth people have picked up when you ask them how their system for evaluating projects to see if they are pork or necessary works.
Bwahahahaha.
Could it be the Fund For Growth IS Scientology?!
He has the red nose because the family makes sure he gets lots and lots of amanita muscaria (an hallucinogenic mushroom). It's a red mushroom with white dots ~ very source of colors for Santa's suit.
Now, being the family pet reindeer Rudolph gets his pick of the herd when it comes time for breeding. Boy is a regular stud!
Babies are innocent and do not go to hell.
Rudolph is no stud! If you'll remember he was so effeminate as a young fawn he wasn't allowed to play in any reindeer games. So, a nerd loner most of his life, he studied hard and eventually got into a reindeer law school and afterwards moved to a reindeer metropolis near the North Pole where he was appointed an attorney by Santa to bust up reindeer mafia gangs. Rudolph parlayed that law success into being elected mayor of the reindeer metropolis; but much of his campaign portrayed him as a family reindeer man. Then he dumped his wife, a young doe named Bambi, and took up with Dasher... and now, Rudolph is attempting to run for presidency of the North Pole reindeer nation. But most of the reindeer nation are on to him.
Some here are so far removed from the Lord with their daily endless barage of gossip and carping.
It is impossible for anyone to judge says the Lord in a state of contention.
2 Nephi 27
23 For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.
24 And again it shall come to pass that the Lord shall say unto him that shall read the words that shall be delivered him:
25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men—
26 Therefore, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, yea, a marvelous work and a wonder, for the wisdom of their wise and learned shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent shall be hid.
27 And wo unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord! And their works are in the dark; and they say: Who seeth us, and who knoweth us? And they also say: Surely, your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay. But behold, I will show unto them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that I know all their works. For shall the work say of him that made it, he made me not? Or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, he had no understanding?
28 But behold, saith the Lord of Hosts: I will show unto the children of men that it is yet a very little while and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field; and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest.
29 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness.
30 And the meek also shall increase, and their joy shall be in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
31 For assuredly as the Lord liveth they shall see that the terrible one is brought to naught, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off;
32 And they that make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of naught.
33 Therefore, thus saith the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob: Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
34 But when he seeth his children, the work of my hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
35 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
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and the place where so many contention souls dwell is best describled in Job!
Job 5: 14
14 They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
He literally leads them to slaughter which makes him decidedly unpopular.
But reindeer are stupid.
Yes, nesnah, the seer stone was one of the tools used to translate the Book of Mormon. Southpark screwed up many details. In all, I’d say the episode was about 40% accurate.
Than don’t imply or make up stuff as you go along!
One big thing you like to imply was They is paid indirectly by the Mormon Church was that meaning it came from tithes?
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No it does not come from tithes it comes from the LDS who want to defend, and have refutation for the misrepresentation going on out there, by disgruntled X-Mormons for whatever reason they are where they are, plus the anti’s they had them in the days that Jesus dwell upon the earth and it is the same disturber spirit leading them today!.
The children of Caiaphas!
LC, you are a real laugh! Have a happy new year!
WHICH 40%?
~”So if somebody says the Holy Spirit told him LDS is the church of Satan then he should believe that...”~
Sure. But the Holy Spirit tells the truth, so that person will not be told that. If such a person were to ask me, I would counsel them to work on their discernment skills.
~”It’s kind of absurd that they publish these answers...”~
I agree, some of the answers are incomplete, silly, or logically flawed. But, it’s not an official Church publication, either. FAIR is associated with the Church, but is still an independent organization. It does not speak for the LDS Church.
As for why they bothered to publish the answers, you’ll have to ask them.
~”It has been the belief of most Christian theologians that Christianity is not based on blind faith but that our God given reasoning ability is part of the foundation of our faith.”~
The LDS Church embraces the same principles.
~”The entire foundation of the Christian faith is based on something people SAW - the resurrected Jesus.”~
That’s not entirely true. Some of it was seen; but God generally shows us the miracles or gives us the knowledge -after- we have exercised faith. In other words, we see after we believe. God uses unseen methods as well, though. Peter, for example, knew that Jesus was the Christ not because man had told him, but because God the Father had revealed it to him - he had knowledge from an unseen source. Many similar examples can be found in the Bible.
It’s funny that you mention Corinthians. I came across a passage that struck me today as we were studying the Bible in church:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1 Corinthians 2:9-14
In the LDS Church, we embrace this. We seek to be instructed by the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost is an excellent teacher to the willing pupil.
I do not use hyperbole when I say that it is among the greatest tragedies of our age that man has so roundly rejected the personal instruction of the Holy Ghost - even those who strive their whole lives to be religious. They trust in the arm of flesh to teach them rather than in the wisdom of God.
Do you have another definition of Christian to offer?
So far, we’re up to:
-One who follows Christ.
-One who embraces the precepts of traditional Christianity.
Please, do tell me any more entries you might have. It would be far more productive than the mere criticism you have offered thus far.
~”I’m waiting for you to extend the same courtesy to Mormons who manage to attack the Bible...”~
I defy you to produce an example of a Mormon FReeper who has attacked the Bible.
I wait with ‘bated breath.
~”Three people recorded his Adam God speech. Two of the original accounts agree and one doesn’t.”~
I did not know that. Is there somewhere you could point me where I could learn more?
Bye Bye the NWO Huckapuppet you have Huckubeen
~”Now, being the family pet reindeer Rudolph gets his pick of the herd when it comes time for breeding. Boy is a regular stud!”~
Storytime at the muawiyah house. Your children must have had some strange ideas...
I thought you knew that.
Check out "Odin" "Little Red Man" "Herb Woman" "Thor" some time. Just call them up all at once. Simply amazing stuff there.
Tame reindeer used by this family to pull sleigh. At a different time he'll be used to corral some wild reindeer. Basically the Sa'ami in the Sapmai use the reindeer as both the "herding animal" (like a collie) and "animal being herded" (like a sheep).
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