Posted on 12/24/2007 7:55:05 AM PST by Alex Murphy
WASHINGTON — Mike Huckabee, one of the most conservative Republicans in the 2008 presidential race, has embraced one of the most radical ideas on the campaign trail: a plan to abolish all federal income and payroll taxes and replace them with a single 23% national sales tax.
The idea -- dubbed the "fair tax" by proponents -- has been a political asset for Huckabee; its well-organized backers have helped catapult him from the back of the presidential pack to its top tier.
Sales tax proponents have tapped into seething voter hostility toward the Internal Revenue Service to become a below-the-radar political force, popping up at campaign events and candidate forums in Iowa and elsewhere.
The efforts on Huckabee's behalf by sales tax advocates helped spur his surprise second-place showing in an August Iowa straw poll -- the breakthrough that marked the beginning of his rise in the state and nationwide.
He is the only major presidential candidate to make the idea central to his campaign. "The first thing I'd love to do as president: Put a 'going out of business' sign on the Internal Revenue Service," he said at one debate.
Some wonder, however, whether his embrace of the plan eventually could turn into a liability.
The sales tax proposal has been around for years but languished on the fringes of practical politics and policy. Tax professionals generally regard the idea as impractical, regressive and even "crackpot," as one critic puts it.
It has gone nowhere in Congress. The 2005 Presidential Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform soundly rejected the idea. And many politicians shy away from it because it is easy for opponents to portray it as a huge tax increase -- as Democrats did in a 2006 Senate race in South Carolina.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
So the 1.45% of my earnings that I paid into Medicare (and am still paying into, BTW,) doesn’t count for anything? The monthly premium of $96.50 is an illusion?
Great! Give me back my money PLUS COMPOUND INTEREST since Medicare took effect in 1965 and I’ll be totally responsible for my own medical expenses.
BUT since I had no choice about having to contribute to either SS OR Medicare, and did so for 55 and 42 years respectively, I’m sure not going to feel guilty because I am benefitting now. You know, they didn’t have 401K accounts back in the 50’s and 60’s so we had to have ordinary savings accounts that didn’t pay as much in returns. Today, with matching funds from companies, in some cases, people have better opportunities to save for their retirement. I also saved for my retirement but I had to work harder to do it.
You act like all seniors are lazy slugs lying around all day. Many of us still work part time or volunteer in various ways.
But don’t worry - inevitably you will be a senior citizen too and will have to put up with the younger generation wondering why you just don’t die and get out of the way. I’m sure your outlook will be quite different then.
and I am not just arguing for the Fair Tax. I’m arguing that everybody pays taxes. Working or retired. Everybody pays the same. Everybody. It is the only way taxes and spending will be controlled.
This is one of the things Rush worries about the most: the fact that since many people do not pay taxes there is a tendency to increase them. If we all pay they will be lower than if only some pay. Once a majority does not pay they are likely to go much higher.
I understand double taxation. The issue is spreading out the load to pay the cost of government to as many people as possible. It is the only way to stop (slow down) tax creep.
As soon as they sell a bond that has a 23% YTM and they claim it has a 30% yield, I'll be on board with your accusation. LOL!
Merry Christmas! Even to the math impaired (not you!).
First, thank you for your service. (And thanks to my DAD for HIS service, my cousin for his service (in the Marines), and my two great-nephews for their CURRENT service in Afghanistan.)
There was a time, before LBJ got greedy, that SS contributions were not put into the general fund, but were actually in a SS trust fund. I never said SS was a savings program. It was a government program that I had no free choice about contributing to. Since I did contribute, I refuse to feel bad about now benefitting from said contributions. What the hell does flood insurance have to do with anything? It’s not MY fault that the government had to put its sticky fingers in monies that should have been set aside. You can blame both parties for that. Not me.
Your #4 makes no sense. You have no idea what my medical expenses are or were. I’m saying that when I was working full time, my health insurance premiums were nowhere near what I pay now. You have no basis to say that I’m not telling the truth.
Glad we agree on #5. Interest income shouldn’t be taxed. If people didn’t save money and put it into financial institutions, nobody would be able to borrow money for houses, etc.
The same concept applies to inclusive vs. exclusive tax rates.
That is exactly what they do.
Back atcha.
I understand double taxation. The issue is spreading out the load to pay the cost of government to as many people as possible. It is the only way to stop (slow down) tax creep.
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You go beyond understanding double taxation, you advocate it!!!!
I paid taxes on unsheltered income for over 40 years and you want to tax it again. And again and again???????
How come no one is advocating a FLAT TAX on income. I’d be for that like white on rice. Trying to speak cleanly here.
Then why not just have a flat tax. That way everybody pays the same percentage of their income with no deductions. No exemptions for children, etc.
23%. And I get a prebate.
” You have no basis to say that I’m not telling the truth.”
I am not saying you are lying willfully. I am saying that Medicare is subsidized and so is health insurance paid by employers. Do you know how that works? It is a government subsidy to you via your employer partly because it is deductible for companies but not individuals. You need to look at the FULLY LOADED COST of heath insurance. Apples to apples. The reason I pre-emptively bring up flood insurance is that most people use it as a counter to the other unfair insurance. I’m totally opposed to subsidies and the only way to get there is to have a universal tax that inpacts all. Fair Tax is one approach. It is not my favorite. It hides the tax. I say everybody writes a check - the same check. But the Fair Tax is much better than what we have now.
I still say letting retired people off the hock because they are living on savings reduces the pool of people that are impacted by federal taxes and that is a bad thing. Everybody should pay the same.
BTW, I am not a former Marine. It is just a dramatic example of why we need SOME federal taxes. I am a former member of the United States Navy. The Marines are a branch - of sorts.
Exactly! Even though they paid taxes when they earned it, more taxes when they put it in the bank and collected interest or were taxed when they earned capital gains or dividends. Even if they still pay taxes on their interest and dividends, it's not enough. We should just take it all, ungrateful old bastards /idiot rant off
Sound good?
“How come no one is advocating a FLAT TAX on income.”
People with no “income” would pay no taxes. That is not fair. Why tax income at all? Why Flat Tax on income. Why not just tax everybody the same? I never understood property tax on assessed value either. Does a million dollar house use four times the civic services of a 250K house? No. So why pay more. This is total Marxist to me.
Even better - my Dad was Navy. Served on the first USS Saratoga in 1940 until she was sunk.
Anyway I am still working and paying taxes so I’m not sure why I got into this discussion in the first place. It just irks me when people talk about senior citizens like they are just useless objects and a total drain on society when that is not the case at all.
No it does not sound good. But why should some people pay taxes and not others? Taxes should be charged based on services used not the ‘ability to pay.’
I think the bill says that every man, woman and child gets the prebate EXCEPT for Toddster.
LOL. I was on the USS Saratoga also. The last one, CVA-60.
To funny.
I don’t see old people as useless at all. Although I cannot ever imagine retiring. But I know lots of old people down here that do not care how high income taxes go because they do not pay them, but if AppleBees raises price of apple pie by 5 cent all hell breaks loose. Having retired people in the tax-system is critical for keeping it in check.
One of my concerns about Huckabilly, Suckabee, what have you, is that he is guaranteed to lose to any democrat.
I’m not really exactly sure exactly how much play his various scandals have gotten.
Such as
1) Releases rapist who goes on to murder at least one.
Willie Horton in 1988 was released as part of a prison parole policy. Dukakis did not intervene on his behalf. Huckabee did intervene on Wayne Dumond’s behalf.
2) Related to 1) - Many of Huckabee’s paroles, commutations, etc., were given to born-again Christians, based on the advice of pastors that Huckabee knew. Many haven’t considered the constitutional arguments surrounding this policy. If you were in jail in Arkansas when Huckabee was governor, you had a much better chance to get released from jail if you converted to Christianity, and became saved, or born again. It’s one thing to say (quite rightly) that it’s ridiculous to remove “under God” from the Pledge, it’s quite another to say that people who are not born again Christians do not deserve Equal Protection of the laws. I believe that what happened in the Spanish Inquisition was that non Christians were killed unless they converted to Christianity. Most Americans today are not in favor of the
Spanish Inquisition. In Huckabee’s Arkansas, they did not kill you if you refused to become a born again Christian, but they did, on average, keep you in jail longer.
3) His son tortures, kills a dog. Huckabee intervenes to keep his son out of jail.
4) Did he lose his weight from diet and exercise, or from gastric bypass surgery? He did, after all, write a book about how he lost all that weight from diet and exercise.
His behaviors track exactly those of who have had gastric bypass surgery. For example, he eats 6 very small meals a day, because he can’t fit more than a cup of food in his innards.
5) Various bribery / gifts / ethics scandals.
It would be a joy to be the guy working for the Democrats making negative ads.
How many times should we pay a tax on the same money?
Taxes should be charged based on services used not the ‘ability to pay.’
Great, just give the old people a refund of all the taxes they overpaid over the years.
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