Flaws may ground older F15's indefinitely

Washington Post via MSNBC ^ | December 22 2007 | Josh White

[xsrdx]

Air Force inspectors have discovered major structural flaws in eight older-model F-15 fighters, sparking a new round of examinations that could ground all of the older jets into January or beyond, senior Air Force and defense officials said.

The Air Force's 442 F-15A through F-15D planes, the mainstay of the nation's air-to-air combat force for 30 years, have been grounded since November, shortly after one of the airplanes broke into large chunks and crashed in rural Missouri. Since then, Air Force officials have found cracks in the main support beams behind the cockpits of eight other F-15s, and they fear that similar problems could exist in others.

Current and former Air Force officials said that the grounding of the F-15s -- on average 25 years old -- is the longest that U.S. fighter jets have ever been kept out of the air. Even if the jets are cleared for flight, they add, it could take six months to get the pilots and aircraft back to their normal status.

[Eye of Unk]

[omega4179]

There is a lot of ignorance in the posts. Any part on a plane can be replaced. They rebuild ford trimotors, dc-3s, and other antique planes all the time and we replaced most of the wing spars on the A-10s in recent years due to hi-g

[Yossarian]

There is a lot of ignorance in the posts. Any part on a plane can be replaced. They rebuild ford trimotors, dc-3s, and other antique planes all the time and we replaced most of the wing spars on the A-10s in recent years due to hi-g

Yeah, but what about all the underlying spars and truss that forms the g-loaded backbone of the plane? You can't just "swap" that out!

The F-22 is atrociously expensive, but the F-15 has been operated WAY beyond its design life, and I'm not surprised at all that it is showing fatigue problems.

[Don Corleone]

They don’t want to fix it they want new toys to break.

Those "new toys" are over in the Middle East being played with by brave men/women so that you can make idiotic remarks like that.

[GreyFriar]

Remember that these are planes designed to fight the Cold War, which ended in 1989. We don’t need them anymore because there is no current threat to America from the defunct Soviet Union. All we need are just a handful of WWII commemorative aircraft to defend the continent. We are safely sheltered by the oceans on either side of us.

(scarcasm off)

[boomop1]

They never appear to get old, even the old Tanker looks good with those nice engines I wish we had way back then.

[BikerJoe]

There is a lot of ignorance in the posts. Any part on a plane can be replaced. They rebuild ford trimotors, dc-3s, and other antique planes all the time and we replaced most of the wing spars on the A-10s in recent years due to hi-g

Yeah, but what about all the underlying spars and truss that forms the g-loaded backbone of the plane? You can't just "swap" that out!

I've learned that ANYTHING can be repaired. It becomes a matter of whether it's economic to do so.

Having been an engineer at McDonnell Aircraft (working on the F-15) in a past life, I can tell you that the repairs can be done, but it will be MAJOR surgery to do it.

[boomop1]

I refueled them in the testing phase, I got grounded after 12 years hearing lose. In 77 was PMEL Lab Chief then retired at Dover when I got orders to go to Shymia Ak.

[darkmatter]

Its time to build more F 22s. They are expensive but losing air superiority to a potential enemy would be “expensive” also.

[mad_as_he$$]

Considering how tough the Eagle is.

Built to fight where others fear to fly.

[SampleMan]

There is a lot of ignorance in the posts. Any part on a plane can be replaced. They rebuild ford trimotors, dc-3s, and other antique planes all the time and we replaced most of the wing spars on the A-10s in recent years due to hi-g

Yet some parts are far more expensive to replace than others. You can also theoretically replace the keel of a ship, but its no simply matter.

[mad_as_he$$]

How much do you want to spend on replacing parts is the question. Do you want to put a new motor and tranny into you 15 years old Chrysler mini van?

[mad_as_he$$]

Since I am certain that the 270 hours per year has been exceeded. They did not miss the projection by much.

[darkmatter]

How long are the airframes on these fighters (F15 and F16) designed to last? Does anybody know?

[Eye of Unk]

Race for pinks?

[mad_as_he$$]

lol perfect!!!! Wow it is even chopped!

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

F-15s are based upon 40-year old technology designed to counter the MiG-25 (which turned out to be an interceptor and not an air superiority fighter), so there's no point in building news ones, which are really obsolete. Kinda like building new 1976 year Cadillacs, if you get my drift.

Ever since 9/11, the USAF has really been in an ever increasing budget fix, with funding being siphoned away for the Army and Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan. The service has lost over 40,000 personnel in recent years, and I'm sure that inspections, maintenance, and upgrades are being short-changed. The recent story at Minot about a serious breach in nuclear weapons handling and security no doubt has its origins in the budget and manpower crisis facing the USAF today.

But to get back to the F-15s A-D, their air frames are just wore out after 30 years of high G flying, and the entire fleet needs to be retired and replaced with F-22s. Pretty soon, I imagine, we'll be hearing similar airframe structural failures in F-16s, which entered service about 1979. Consequently, I don't think that the USAF generals are crying wolf this time around.

[Eye of Unk]

It really depends on how BIG the engine is.

[ExSES]

Can these aircraft be repaired? Maybe....maybe not.

There is no question that they CAN be repaired! The question is..., at what cost and will it be worthwhile when amortized over the remaining service life of the aircraft!

[BikerJoe]

See post #21 with the specifications, estimates and graphs.

The authors cited know far better than I about such things. My personal knowledge extends to: ...they didn't tend to come apart on first flight :-)