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To: HamiltonJay
You claim the pastor has no roll in educating and informing

No, what I was claiming is that the gifts of teaching and preaching are two different gifts. Churches have Sunday School and bible study for teaching. The pastor does the preaching, and may in some cases also teach one of the Sunday School or bible studies if he is so gifted.

Preaching is educating and informing my friend, its not simply regurgitating words for the sake of hearing oneself speak.

Preaching is about speaking the gospel, encouraging the saints and admonishing them as needed. Deeper teaching comes from Sunday School class, bible studies and from mentors if they are so gifted, as well as from our individual study of scripture and prayer time. Not that the pastor doesn't impart information during preaching, of course, but once again, preaching and teaching are two different spiritual gifts. (Doesn't matter what the dictionary says - look to the bible.)

Ultimately, it is up to the Holy Spirit and the individual to learn and discern the truth. Some third party can't force it on you.

A Pastor cannot lead a flock that he does not know.

Your opinion, nothing more.

I find it amazing you claim that a man can do more than God incarnate.

LOL You cannot defend your position from the bible, so you make up stuff. Your strawman has fallen down and can't get up.

Hmmm... so one who does not know you, and cannot know you because frankly the size of your "church" makes it impossible, is going to be able to aid you in better knowing the Lord?

You seem awfully lazy. Nothing is stopping you or me from going to the pastor and asking for his help (or for a Sunday School teacher's help, or a mentor's help, or anyone else's help) if I desire a closer walk with the Lord. First and foremost, it is MY responsibility, and I should be working on that myself through bible study and prayer in addition to any help I may request.

You touch peoples hearts and minds by KNOWING them, no paster of a "flock" of 10,000 will know his charges, well other than those with the deepest pockets anyway.

But touch them in what way? Any man can 'touch' someone's heart with pretty words. From a spiritual perspective, what is important is being touched by the Holy Spirit. Your continual efforts to pin all the responsibility on the pastor and limit the ability of the Holy Spirit is very telling. (In addtion to your refusal to acknowledge that Jesus is God and that the bible is God's word.)

You seem to think teaching and preaching are seperate, they are not.

If you care to, you can read 1 Corinthians and see that they are, indeed, separate spiritual gifts.

You believe my stands unbiblical, I find yours borderline heretical.

Your stands are unbiblical, and therefore, you assessment as to what is heretical is meaningless.

154 posted on 12/18/2007 10:54:19 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody

Deny Jesus is God???? Um, have you bothered reading what I have wrote?

Jesus is God, and in his time on this planet as recorded in the bible, he never ministered to more than about 5,000 persons. Yet, you believe some non denominational pastor can effectively educated and shepherd 10,000 a week?

God incarnate himself did not attempt this, yet I am to believe you when you claim this is the way the truth and the light?

You continue to deny that preaching is teaching. This is a fundamentally flawed and failed view. Jesus could easily have quoted existing scriptures instead of teaching his word, yet he chose to teach, not mearly parrot. When challenged on the Jewish texts he not only offered them, but also their intent and meaning.

You don’t have a pastor with 10,000 sheep, you have a CEO, and an accounts receivable. If your pastor doesn’t know you or your children or your spouse on sight, after attending a church for any length of time, you don’t have a pastor, you have a performer.

I find it interesting that you quote Chorinthians I, especially considering how much the focus is not to pay attention to the flamboyantness of the voice...... A good bit of irony in that one if you asked me. Megachurches are all about the flamboyance of the delivery, at least by their pastors and the dog and pony show delivered weekly... not the knowlege and care and involvment that guides the flock to Christ.


160 posted on 12/18/2007 12:02:40 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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