[Mobile Vulgus]

Right on Rod!!

[devere]

Mormons believe that Jesus was the divine son of God who died and was resurrected, and therefore they are Christians, regardless of any other doctrinal differences. To say otherwise, in my opinion, is just playing with words. Unitarians believe that Jesus was an inspired prophet of God, but not himself divine, so Unitarians are not Christians. We’ve had Unitarian Presidents and the country did OK. I’m quite sure we’ll do alright with a Mormon President, if they’re otherwise well qualified.

[donna]

Mitt believes that his wife cannot rise to heaven unless he, Mitt, calls her up by her secret name that only he and she knows.

I’m not voting for a person who believes women are inferior before god.

[Jeff Chandler]

1. Of course, by any criteria agreed upon by Christian denominations of nearly every stripe, Mormons aren't Christians. If anyone doesn't know what I mean, read this book:

   

   Mere Christianity.

2. I have no problem voting for a Mormon, or for that matter, an atheist, depending on his character and conservative philosophy.
3. Mrs. Chandler disagrees with #2.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

But the crooked timber of humanity is frail indeed. If God doesn't exist, then by what standard do we decide right from wrong?

By the same standards we've always used to decide right from wrong - human devised standards which came about to allow human societies to form and function without imploding. It's likely that we can even do a better job of devising such standards than the iron-age desert dwellers who created the major religions of the West.

[Mobile Vulgus]

ATTENTION EVERYONE...

I did not add the second part of the title on this thread.

All I titled this was “Mormons aren’t Christians”

The board mods added the part about M. Luther.

Just so everyone knows.

[henbane]

Just what we need right now--a big detour from a Republican political debate to nasty in-fighting over Christian theology.

Thanks a whole helluva lot!

[Norman Bates]

I’ll call Luther a heretic. There. :)

[Rudder]

This should bring out the bigots.

[Cvengr]

From the article"...But we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss John Adams' observation that the U.S. Constitution is made "only for a moral and religious people" and will not work for any other. 10. Adams' pronouncement raises the question: "Whose morality, and whose religion?" The American constitutional understanding of the rights of man and human dignity come out of both the Enlightenment and Judeo-Christian tradition. The American constitutional order, and the American civil religion, is inexplicable outside of both, together, in creative tension. Religion is not sufficient for securing liberty, but religion, restricted by boundaries required by a pluralist democracy, is necessary to maintain it."

IMHO, I would phrase the question implied by the author differently. A direct answer to his question, "whose morality ans whose religion?" is simply that which God provides Himself for us to follow. He doesn't provide a religion where man himself (other than Christ Jesus) establishes the doctrines of their faith, rather all faith comes from Him and just as different believers may have different spiritual gifts, their paths of sanctification may vary from believer to believer, but always through faith in Christ.

The author also might do better to use a vocabulary that better expresses his meaning in the word "religion".

Religion, per se, is acknowledged as a valid for of worship in Scripture, so God does recognize religion. The humanist perspective, judging all forms of doctrine as comparative religion fails to qualify as religion in His eyes. When the humanist promotes religion without qualification, it becomes a counterfeit substitute for that which God provides.

The author is correct, IMHO, to sense a nation and its leaders are able to be successful even if believer or unbeliever. Nationhood is one of four divinely established institutions in which humans, believers and unbelievers, may live productive lives, provided they respect the legitimate authority of those institutions.

IMHO, we observe our nation attempting to dismantle legitimate authority of those institutions. Volition is challenged by legislation promoting the legalization of hate speech as a crime and promotion of infanticide. Marriage is challenged by the promotion of homosexual agendas. Family is challenged by divorce and humanist educational agendas. The nation is challenged by the promotion of a New World Order and globalization and a one world government.

Here is a set of notes regarding divine discipline for nations which reject what He provides.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1568429/posts

For these reasons, I find it imperative that the leadership of the nation be a believer and to remain in fellowship through Christ as best attainable. Those candidates who have exemplified worldly success, IMHO, are less qualified at this point in our history than one which simply remains in fellowship with God through faith in Christ.

A degenerate or backslidden believer, or unbeliever, are likely IMHO, to advance worldly agendas which will further attack divinely established institutions and their legitimate authority.

MItt might be a sharp fellow, but IMHO, not the right solution to the problems we really face.

[Brad from Tennessee]

[Smart man, that Luther. For a heretic.]

In Rod Dreher’s biography he describes himself as a Catholic activist. What else can he call Luther but a “heretic?”

[GregH]

Whether someone is Christian or not is not for Rod Dreher
or other humans to judge, i think the Bible is quite clear on this point.

[Caipirabob]

I won't stand for Mormons being persecuted. This has to stop now. Debate all you want, haggling over niggling details should NOT be part of election year politics any more than the color of one's skin.

Rip the man on his socialist apologies and chameleon's approach to populist positions. Leave the Mormons alone...

"Leave Mitt alone!..."

[moonman]

It was a good read. Like a lot of articles on the 'Is Mormonism Christianity?' subject, it gives the reader another perspective.

Several years ago, I sat in a few 'Twelve Steps of A.A.' meetings. I will use this as an example.

There are 12 steps which are suggested to alcoholics to have them work, achieve and live in sobriety. What happens when one fails to work the steps? What happens if one goes back out to drink again? Are they 'kicked out' of A.A.? No.

The only membership requirement for A.A. is: "A desire to stop drinking". period!

My belief as a Christian is: "Acceptence of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior". period!

Whether one follows the suggested steps of a specific Christian religion or for a recovering alcoholic, membership is merely a 'desire and acceptance'. This stuff ain't hard, folks, and it never was meant to be.

[don-o]

bump and ping

[don-o]

Read most of the thread and have read some others on this enduring subjext. Mostly lacking is a definition of what IS a Christian?

Of course, that is as contentious as whether Mormons are or are not.

[newzjunkey]

Theologically, this is a big deal. But politically, so what? Mormons vote like Southern Baptists and come down on the same side of most issues of public morality like conservative Christians do.

But do we really know Romney isn't like "cafeteria Catholics" Kerry and Kennedy? He's been Mormon all the while he proclaimed to be pro-Choice, for example. Must distrust has nothing to do with his Mormonism. I wish he was a more devout Mormon as I'd at least know he had a moral center of fundamental values instead of the shifting sand, poll-taking sort he seems to be.

[AppyPappy]

Mormons aren't Christians.

Stupid conclusion. Salvation is an individual decision, not a corporate one.

The LDS church is not Christian because it is not Trinitarian. Of course, they say the same of us so the circle is not unbroken.

[The Great RJ]

Let us get the definitions right. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion or denies global warming. An infidel is anyone who is not Muslim especially Jews and Christians.

[Conservative_Jedi]

This is one big fat YAWWWWWWWWWN!!

To be a Christian is to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and the Son of God. Mormons believe that. Hence they are Christians. Regardless of what sect of Christianity you are in, you cannot call yourself a Christian without believing Jesus Christ is your Savior and the Son of God. Granted Mormons worship differently than Baptists, but Baptists worship differently than Presbyterians, Presbyterians worship differently than Methodists, Methodists worship differently than Pentecostals, Pentecostal worship differently than Lutheran, and Lutheran worship different than Catholics. My History teacher once said that "All Catholics are Christians. Not all Christians are Catholic". Very well put. We are all Christians that believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and the Son of God. So no more of this diatribe that Mormons are not Christians. I am Baptist by the way.

[Lady Heron]

All Christian denominations classify mormons a Christian cult. The book “Kingdom of the Cults” by Hank Hanegraaff goes through many of the Christian cults and why they are thus classified by Christians if anybody is interested.