[wintertime]

In other words, as wintertime says, for the school to do its job of teaching “reading, writing, arithmetic, history, science, geography, etc” a certain amount of discipline is necessary (I don’t necessarily agree that most schools restrict practice of religion, however).

Otherwise, it is contradictory to simultaneously decry discipline and the poor performance of the public schools.

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Amelia, I invite you to re-read post # 61 and #65 again.

You will see that the First Amendment, freedom of conscience, and government schooling are utterly incompatible. They can NOT occupy the same space at the same time. We as citizens will have First Amendment Rights and freedom of conscience, or we will have compulsory government schools. We can not have both.

[Amelia]

You will see that the First Amendment, freedom of conscience, and government schooling are utterly incompatible. They can NOT occupy the same space at the same time.

Wintertime, I know that you don't believe in government schools, but I also see that you don't believe learning can take place without a certain amount of discipline.

I might note that minors do not, and have never had, full civil rights, whether as public school students or as citizens. For instance, minors may not enter into binding contracts, marry without parental consent, vote, run for public office, etc.

If we do not allow minors full civil rights outside of school, I don't know why you think they should be allowed full rights within the schools. They are, as you are so fond of pointing out in other contexts, immature and naive in most cases.

[Old Student]

“We as citizens will have First Amendment Rights and freedom of conscience, or we will have compulsory government schools. We can not have both.”

Interesting argument. Unfortunately, it was lost over a hundred years ago.

They didn’t call it the “Prussian system” for nothing.