Posted on 12/15/2007 3:03:53 PM PST by DryFly
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If this had been a private school and not a government school compelled by law, there would be no case. Why is that?
Answer: There is a fundamental conflict between the First Amendment and **compulsory** government schools. The two can NOT coexist! It is impossible!
Why?
Answer: To maintain an orderly school, speech, press, free association, and practice of religion **must** be restricted. Also, there is no such thing as a religiously neutral education.
Also,,,**compulsion** means police, court, and foster care action. That is what government power is. So...the government threatens parents with imprisonment, and then herds the children into an environment in which government workers tell the children to shut up, forbid free press, dictate with whom they will associate, forbid religious expression, and finally indoctrinate them in the religion of Secular Humanism!
If the taxpayer balks at this travesty. Armed sheriffs stand ready to auction his home and business. If he resists, they will imprison him. If he seriously resists they will kill him.
Aren’t government schools great! ( Excuse me while I go barf!)
There is a solution: Begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.
This would be of interest to others.
metmom,
This would be of interest to others.
Wear funny socks, win big bucks!
How come I never get a sweet gig like this?
The problem here Amelia, Virginia Ridgerunner, and JamesP81, is that government schools and the First Amendment are utterly incompatible! The two can not coexist!
JamesP82 wrote: "I will repeat: the govt schools represent a long term existential threat to our society. I will never stand in defense of any institution or organization that poses so dire a threat to this nation. For any reason."
WINNER!!!! Give this man a prize!!!
You get it! There is a fundamental and irresolvable conflict between freedom of conscience, the First Amendment and police enforced government schooling!!!
Virginia Ridgerunner wrote: Govt schools are in the shape they are in because they are government institutions run by liberals.
You don't get it.
Why?
Answer: Because you don't understand that government schools and freedom of conscience can not coexist. Liberals have a fundamental right to freedom of conscience just as much as conservatives and Libertarians do, as well.
Amelia wrote:,,, so they resist all efforts by the schools to enforce discipline, dress codes, and learning standards, preferring instead to file lawsuits if their little darlings aren't allowed to do as they please.
Why don't we read about law suits of this kind against private schools? In my former area of Upper Eastern Shore, Maryland, there were are wide variety of private schools from which to choose. They ranged from a military boarding school to Montessori, to a new-agey-free-thinking school. Guess what? The kids looked very content, were doing well on their standardized tests, and I bet the parents were happy too!
In contrast, we have the government school, one-size-fits-all. If you can't afford to ransom you child from the government school indoctrination camp, too bad. The government will force that child into its minimum security prison and tell them to shut up and DO NOT WEAR SOCKS WITH TIGERS ON THEM!!! If they don't abide, the government will punish them.
Wear funny socks, win big bucks!
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Hopefully, we will see move of this. One way to drive a stake through the heart of government education is to bankrupt it.
They’ll just hit up us chumps for more.... and most will pay it.
please read post #61 and #65. Thanks
Hopefully, those of us who would like to see a free market approach to universal K-12 education can change how people see compulsory government indoctrination.
Where abouts? 4th generation Easton resident here, although now in New Mexico.
I know someone who wears underwear with the “Burger King” logo. Think about that.
I have worked in one public school system that had a uniform requirement. In that case, the uniform requirement was implemented after a good deal of community discussion, and with the approval and support of the majority of the parents. After the first few months, some parents didn't like the way some parts of the policy were being interpreted/enforced by some of the principals, and they petitioned the school board for clarification/changes, which were also implemented.
I'd say that is a rather democratic process, and one which might also have occurred in this instance; however, a small group of parents apparently took exception to what may actually have been a democratic process, and wanted exceptions for their children.
The uniform policy in this particular school actually seems to have been pretty lenient; it seems the children could wear any colors they chose, so long as they wore solid colors.
In other words, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," so in this case you're in favor of the ACLU.
It sounds to me as if you're beyond discussion or reasoning with on this issue.
wintertime: To maintain an orderly school, speech, press, free association, and practice of religion **must** be restricted.
In other words, as wintertime says, for the school to do its job of teaching "reading, writing, arithmetic, history, science, geography, etc" a certain amount of discipline is necessary (I don't necessarily agree that most schools restrict practice of religion, however).
If one feels the public schools need to be destroyed, cheering the destruction of discipline within the schools probably makes sense.
Otherwise, it is contradictory to simultaneously decry discipline and the poor performance of the public schools. They will not perform well if there is no discipline.
Otherwise, it is contradictory to simultaneously decry discipline and the poor performance of the public schools.
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Amelia, I invite you to re-read post # 61 and #65 again.
You will see that the First Amendment, freedom of conscience, and government schooling are utterly incompatible. They can NOT occupy the same space at the same time. We as citizens will have First Amendment Rights and freedom of conscience, or we will have compulsory government schools. We can not have both.
Correct me if I am wrong, but most private schools that I know of are usually considerably more stringent in dress codes, not to mention a good many professional jobs, including our constitutional military, have dress codes.
I know of one private school where if you come to school without a belt, they suspend you for the day, happens again, they expel you.
To have order, you must have discipline. To have discipline, you must have consequence of action. To enforce consequence of action, you must have a set of rules which may or may not infringe on some degree of constitutional right.
IE, a marine has a constitutional right to have long hair, but the Corps is not going to allow that to happen. So, who is wrong?
I didn't write that...
My sincerest apologies.
Did your private high school require uniforms? If so, why?
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