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Tiggergate proves expensive for Napa Valley school district
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | December 14, 2007 | Nanette Asimov

Posted on 12/15/2007 3:03:53 PM PST by DryFly

(12-14) 17:53 PST NAPA VALLEY -- A Napa Valley middle school's decision to bar a child from class last winter for wearing a pair of Tigger socks has proved costly.

The Napa Valley Unified School District is on the hook for at least $95,000 in lawyers' fees under a legal settlement announced Thursday between the district and five Napa families who challenged the school's dress code.

That's enough to pay the salaries of two teachers for a year, but it's only about a quarter of what the district would have had to pay if it went on to lose the Tiggergate lawsuit instead of settling.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: California
KEYWORDS: dresscodes; lawsuit; publicschools; schoolboard; tshirt
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To: wintertime
And,,,it is exactly for this reason that government MUST get out of the education business! How many different ways can I state or explain this? Government schools, First Amendment Rights, and freedom of conscience can NOT breath the same air!

Unfortunately for you, most states disagree and have provided for public education in their state constitutions.

101 posted on 12/16/2007 5:40:55 PM PST by Amelia
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To: aruanan
then the one doing the judging can be accused of discrimination

And probably will be, sooner or later...

102 posted on 12/16/2007 5:42:33 PM PST by Amelia
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To: DryFly
The efforts to eradicate such horrors from the classroom are frustrated
once again.


That is an outrage.
And we have one here in Missouri as well.
Some of the public school districts have been using TAXPAYER DOLLARS
to sue in state court with a complaint that (shockingly! /sarc),
some of the public school haven't been getting enough TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

Yes, the taxpayers not only pay for the complete public school
enterprise in the state. The Taxpayers also PAY TO SUE THEMSELVES
(via the Public school lawyers).

The lawsuit was blown out of the water by at least one right-minded
Missouri judge.

BUT, like all good liberals/socialists/Communists, the public schools
were getting ready to spend more TAXPAYER dollars to appeal the
adverse ruling.

BUT, here's the good news.
In our local, liberal-for-Missouri town our public school officials
announced that they weren't going to be party to any sort of appeal
of the adverse ruling.

I suspect this only happened because the wastage of taxpayer dollars
was reported on local radio and enough citizens called the school board
and said "ENOUGH! Use your own freakin' money to raise your already
good-to-great salaries!"
103 posted on 12/16/2007 5:45:54 PM PST by VOA
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To: Amelia
Unfortunately for you, most states disagree and have provided for public education in their state constitutions.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unfortunately for the government school juggernaut, people are not stupid, and good ideas win!

First Amendment Rights, freedom of conscience, and government schools can not breathe the same air. The three can not coexist in the same space or at the same time.

104 posted on 12/16/2007 5:53:09 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: JamesP81
we would shutdown these government indoctrination centers. If publicly undercutting the school's authority moves us in that direction, then I've got no problem with it in principle.

It's nice to see someone take the long view, because this is finally what it's about.

The school administrators were delivering the object lesson that a student (or parent) may not question the obviously idiotic. It prepares them for district policies such as: it is fact that humans cause global warming because they are selfish wasteful polluters; it is fact that all white people are racist bigots and it is impossible for any minority to be racist, hateful or the instigator of violence towards whites; it is fact that all rich people stole all they have from poor people who earned it in sweatshops or slavery; it is fact that no human without papers can commit a crime entering the United States, and the property owners are criminals for having what the undocumented's need.

If the students question the idiotic dress code, they just might question the rest of the idiocy.

The ACLU didn't think of that. For us, it's called serendipity.

105 posted on 12/16/2007 5:54:55 PM PST by Navy Patriot (The hyphen American with the loudest whine gets the grease.)
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To: Amelia

You have missed a critical point. It was not a school uniform, it was a dress code. However, it was so restrictive that clearly it was a uniform requriement which falls under a different set of rules in California. School tried an end around the law and got caught. Those responsible should really being paying the legal fees.


106 posted on 12/16/2007 5:58:43 PM PST by Starwolf
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To: wintertime
“It **is** that important! Why aren’t Sean and Rush hammering on this every day?”

I believe it is called “Status Quo Ante.”

I’ve got a better idea, though. Become a conservative teacher. Teach kids history, and how to think. Not WHAT, but HOW! Then stand back...

107 posted on 12/16/2007 6:08:06 PM PST by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: JamesP81

“It’s truly disturbing if one reads the history of public education. Our system is based on Prussia’s, and Prussia’s system was basically intended to create citizens that are pliable and compliant to the whims of the state. I don’t see that such a system has a place in America.”

My understanding is that they were trying to raise compliant and pliable workers for their industrial and military systems. There, and here. I agree that such a system has no place here, but it is here. We have to deal with what is. That is partially why I became a teacher.


108 posted on 12/16/2007 6:10:57 PM PST by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: Starwolf

California, as a state, has different rules distinguishing dress codes and uniforms?


109 posted on 12/16/2007 6:30:44 PM PST by Amelia
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To: neodad

I’m all for dress codes too. We homeschooled, had pajama days.


110 posted on 12/16/2007 7:28:33 PM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Amelia
IIRC, yes (its been a few years). Uniforms require an opt out option, provisions for those who can not afford uniforms and other loopholes, dress codes do not. Basically its very hard for a school or district to force everyone to do the uniform thing. Dress codes have to have direct relation to school related functions, safety and so on. That is why they can ban drug/sex/gang/firearms related shirts and other attire. This school tried to use the dress code approach to mandate a uniform and lost.

We have had our own issues with school dress codes, even unintentionally. My daughter got pinched for have a shirt with a pastoral lake scene since it had the word Winchester on it (claim that it was firearms related). Though she and I disagreed, she changed her shirt and let it go. Another child was cited also for the word Winchester, though it was from the Winchester Mystery House. She got cleared when the parents went to school and protested. I suppose I could have done the same, but it wasn’t worth it to me or my daughter. One student got so annoyed with that kind of nonsense he wore his hunting vest to school. That caused some consternation, since it said nothing, but clearly was a purposeful thumbing of his nose at intent of the dress code and at anti gun liberals at the school. By noon he lost, but it did make the local paper.

I am so glad my youngest is almost through college and all this is behind me...

111 posted on 12/16/2007 7:31:39 PM PST by Starwolf
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To: Starwolf
IIRC, yes (its been a few years). Uniforms require an opt out option, provisions for those who can not afford uniforms and other loopholes, dress codes do not. Basically its very hard for a school or district to force everyone to do the uniform thing. Dress codes have to have direct relation to school related functions, safety and so on. That is why they can ban drug/sex/gang/firearms related shirts and other attire. This school tried to use the dress code approach to mandate a uniform and lost.

If that's the case, it's a different matter, then. So far as I know, there is no similar rule in our state.

112 posted on 12/16/2007 7:37:34 PM PST by Amelia
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To: Old Student
I’ve got a better idea, though. Become a conservative teacher. Teach kids history, and how to think. Not WHAT, but HOW! Then stand back...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don’t enable alcoholics and I don’t enable the government school system.

I will not prop up and support government schools that, by their very nature, are incompatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience.

113 posted on 12/16/2007 7:43:31 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Old Student
Become a conservative teacher.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have been a libertarian teacher. I homeschooled my kids until they entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13.

114 posted on 12/16/2007 8:17:05 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Old Student
I’ve got a better idea, though. Become a conservative teacher. Teach kids history, and how to think. Not WHAT, but HOW! Then stand back...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: Government schools

I personally do not enable alcoholics. I will not prop up and enable a government school system that trashes freedom of conscience and the First Amendment.

115 posted on 12/16/2007 8:18:50 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Amelia

Unfortunately for you, most states disagree and have provided for public education in their state constitutions.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That’s why elections matter, because the winners get to pick the judges.

As long, long waiting lines continue to form for charters, vouchers, and tax credit programs, do you honestly think the delegates and representatives will be deaf to the pleas from these parents, their friends, relatives, and neighbors? As support for vouchers, charters, and tax credits tops the 80% mark among the poor and minorities, do you really think these delegates will turn a deaf ear to these voters?

And,,,then there is the daily reports of abuse, waste, ineffectiveness of the government schools on the Internet, talk radio, and cable.

Our representatives will appoint judges who will declare these government school mandates unconstitutional and incompatible with our Federal Constitution, and our representatives will change the laws.

But,,,,the best solution would be if the entire system simply collapsed on its own, by having parents withdraw their kids.

My tag line reads: “Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!”

Government schools always were, are now, and always will be incompatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience. This is a powerful idea that will win!


116 posted on 12/16/2007 8:30:05 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Amelia; wintertime
"spunkets: The school's job is to teach reading, writing, arithmetic, history, science, geography, ect...
wintertime: To maintain an orderly school, speech, press, free association, and practice of religion **must** be restricted.
In other words, as wintertime says, for the school to do its job of teaching "reading, writing, arithmetic, history, science, geography, etc" a certain amount of discipline is necessary (I don't necessarily agree that most schools restrict practice of religion, however).

I also said, "The schools job is to enable those kids to function effectively in a free society, not to indoctrinate them to perform as sheep in an authoritarian one." That's important. Discipline should be restricted to the tasks at hand, that is for the purposes of learning both the subject matter and the principles of freedom. Dress codes have no relation to either. Neither does restricting freedom of speech, association, "press", or religion in such an arbitrary and authoritarian way as was done in this case.

"the uniform requirement was implemented after a good deal of community discussion, and with the approval and support of the majority of the parents. After the first few months, some parents didn't like the way some parts of the policy were being interpreted/enforced by some of the principals, and they petitioned the school board for clarification/changes, which were also implemented."

There was absolutely no justification to do this. It is not within the rights of anyone to dress others. That includes attempting to justify that intrusion of right by imposing it through democracy. It is repugnant to the idea of freedom and does nothing to foster learning of the basic subject matter. It's simply an exercise in arbitrary authoritarianism.

117 posted on 12/17/2007 8:58:20 AM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: DryFly

Just one of many reasons my children will never see the inside of the government indoctrination centers called “public schools” as a student.

My kids school has a dress code, and if you don’t like it, take your kids somewhere else.


118 posted on 12/17/2007 9:04:17 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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