Clark Aposhian (Rick Egan/The Salt Lake Tribune)
Posted on 12/10/2007 1:59:37 PM PST by neverdem
A pro-gun student group is gearing up to again challenge the University of Utah on its weapons policies, this time seeking approval for what they view as their right to openly carry weapons on campus.
U. administrators are "circumventing the Legislature" and creating their own laws, allege members of Second Amendment Students of Utah, who want to meet with U. officials to hash out their diametrically opposed positions on Utah gun laws.
"Guns have been vilified. We are lucky we live in a state where open carry is still legal," said group member Thomas McCrory, a U. accounting major. "It's a rare thing and it should be preserved."
McCrory's concealed weapons permit allows him to be armed on campus, but he risks expulsion if he were to wear his handgun openly under the university's interpretation of a statute that specifically bars firearms on school campuses.
"There is an exception for concealed-weapon permit holders. That does not mean a permit holder can carry a weapon openly," said U. general counsel John Morris, citing a supportive opinion from the office of Attorney General Mark Shurtleff. Morris declined to get into the specifics of the opinion, which he said is subject to client-attorney privilege.
"The letter concluded that we are legally permitted to prohibit the open carrying of weapons on campus," Morris said. "Unless the attorney general says we're wrong, we're going to continue to prohibit open carry on campus."
U. administrators earlier this year resolved a long stand-off with lawmakers over whether public universities could ban weapons subject to valid concealed-carry permits. After losing in the Utah Supreme Court, U. leaders agreed to a legislative "compromise" in which concealed weapons are allowed everywhere on campus, with "exceptions" for secure hearing rooms and dorm rooms of students who prefer living with roommates who are not licensed to carry a concealed weapon.
But gun-rights advocates are not yet ready to declare victory and call for peace.
"I am not a huge flag waver for open carry, however, your concealed carry permit does not require you to conceal your firearm," said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council. "Utah law is that Utahns may openly carry firearms . . . When someone tells me I can't do something that I know I can, I'm going to argue with them."
Pro-gun students contend openly carried guns are a matter of personal comfort and should not be construed as a menace.
"I don't open carry to make a political statement. Whether I open carry has more to do with the weather. Where it's a hot day I would open carry. On a day like today, I would carry it under my coat," said McCrory, a paraplegic who uses a wheelchair and arms himself for personal protection.
"I would hope that if someone sees a gun, they would come to the rational conclusion that if this person is intent to do harm, he wouldn't be carrying a gun for everyone to see. When I see someone with a gun I think here is one of the good guys who has gone through the class and the background checks."
U. officials see it differently.
"Openly carrying weapons in an academic environment is going to make people very nervous," Morris said. "As an academic matter, it's a bad idea."
An ardent gun-rights lobbyist, Aposhian said he does not envision seeking legislation to force the U. to embrace open carry because he believes Utah law clearly allows it.
"I'm not immune to [the U.'s] concerns," he said. "That's why I say let's sit down and chat about it."
* BRIAN MAFFLY can be reached at 891-257-2089 or bmaffly@sltrib.com.
I think one of the things liberals are afraid of is if people become accustomed to seeing law abiding citizens carrying weapons that people will lose their fear of guns.
Note to students - You have the right to die in the fetal position under youur desks
Is this about concealed carry or open carry?
I am all for concealed carry on campuses and classes.
I don’t think open carry is appropriate at these schools at all.
If this group is pushing for open carry, they may lose more than they gain.
Gun-Free zones = defenseless victim zones.
Oh, this is just silly. Tuck it in. How does open carry make you any safer than concealed carry? On the contrary, it puts you in greater danger, because a criminal will instantly know you’re the guy to take out first.
I have a handgun. I also have a penis. I don’t feel the need to have either of them swingin’ around if they make other folks uncomfortable.
No one is contesting the student’s right to carry concealed. He wants to carry in the open.
Nice thing about Federalism George, is that if you’re not from Utah, your opinion on open carry doesn’t matter to the people of Utah. Not one bit. It’s up to them to decide.
Personally, I think either is just fine. I used to go down to the store to buy ammo in my little California hometown with either a rifle or a pistol and that was before I was 16. It wasn’t that long ago either (well, maybe, cause I ain’t even close to 16 anymore).
And states like mine (Illinois) feel free to directly contradict the second amendment. I don't have the kind of money it would take to challenge that and the ACLU is not knocking on my door to represent me.
The other side of this is that by him making himself target #1, those of us carrying concealed will have more time and opportunity to detect the bad guy and eliminate him. Nice of the open carry guy to create a diversion for us.
Its college. Might be a chick magnet.
“Openly carrying weapons in an academic environment is going to make people very nervous,” Morris said. “As an academic matter, it’s a bad idea.”
Certainly don’t want to be discussing “ideas” on a college campus!
This will give true meaning to the term, ‘thesis defense’:
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/autoweapons.html
I have a firearm and I am used to open carry everywhere when I lived in AZ. Now that I live in CO, I'm quite upset my RIGHT to keep and bear arms is denied by two municipalities that believe the Bill Of Rights is nice for other places, but doesn't apply to them.
Colorado passed a must issue concealed carry law, so now I have the ability to get a CCW that must be honored in Denver (where I work unfortunately) that before was impossible to get, however I refuse to exchange my RIGHT to keep and bear arms for a PRIVILEGE to carry concealed which can be revoked for no reason whatsoever.
People who say the answer is simple, get a CCW and keep it hidden is detrimental to the RKBA in two ways. First, it allows the government to establish the right to regulate the RKBA and eliminate open carry, and then can later revoke the CCW leaving a total ban that was not argued when it could have been (when the open carry was banned) since the privilege to CCW can be revoked at any time. Second, it greatly helps the media portray any citizen who would choose to open carry as a fringe extremist who is most likely dangerous just like your silly analogy... As long as the population on whole sees normal, sane, law abiding citizens open carrying, it is much harder for the MSM to complete their brainwashing.
LOL! Thanks for the link!
I don’t know if this is the same college or not, but a few months ago, many were wearing empty holsters to classes all day in protest somewhere.
“I think one of the things liberals are afraid of is if people become accustomed to seeing law abiding citizens carrying weapons that people will lose their fear of guns.”
Nailed it, absolutely nailed it...with a minor exemption.
Somehow people seem to lose their fear of guns when the guns are in the hands of government agents.
“Oh, this is just silly. Tuck it in. How does open carry make you any safer than concealed carry?”
In the individual sense, deterrence. It’s best never to need to use your firearm in self defense. Criminals for the most part are cowards and opportunists. An openly carried firearm advertises *NOT FOOD* to your average criminal.
In the societal sense, open carry provides what has been termed the “innoculation effect.” People are uncomfortable with what they are inexperienced with. The more the non carrying public (read: the vast majority) has positive or at least non threatening expreiences with lawfully armed citizens, the less they are likely to view them as a threat. They’re also curious, which gives your friendly neighborhood gun activist the opportunity to talk about firearms in a positive way.
Part of this is about winning hearts and minds.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.