Everything’s Perfect, Except ... (NYT Ultra Hurl Alert)

The New York Times ^ | December 8, 2007 | Gail Collins

[2ndDivisionVet]

The peak of my sympathy for Mitt Romney came when he was being battered on one side by Christian fundamentalists who think his faith is a cult and on the other by fellow Mormons, who were irate when he fudged the fact that they believe Jesus will return to earth and build a new Jerusalem in Jackson County, Mo.

This week, Mitt made his much-anticipated religion speech, and stood up for his rights not to be discriminated against for his beliefs, and not to have to explain the part about Jackson County. Good for him on both counts.

... Except that you have to wonder why he felt compelled to dip into dogma just long enough to assure voters that he believes “Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.”

Romney’s message, which boiled down to let’s-all-be-religious-together, was certainly different from the John Kennedy version, which argued that a candidate’s religion is irrelevant. But then Kennedy was speaking to the country, while Romney had his attention fixed on the approximately 35,000 Iowa religious conservatives who will tip the balance in the first-in-the-nation Republican caucus.

Can I pause here briefly to point out that in New York there are approximately 35,000 people living on some blocks? If my block got to decide the first presidential caucus, I guarantee you we would be as serious about our special role as the folks in Iowa are. And right now Mitt Romney would be evoking the large number of founding fathers who were agnostics.

[2ndDivisionVet]

Funny how they never slam the democrats like this. Gail is 100% wrong about Fred, of course.

[BenLurkin]

Except that you have to wonder why he felt compelled to dip into dogma just long enough to assure voters that he believes “Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.”

Because, Gail, all Christians agree with that statement as worded -- BUT it dodges the question of whether Gov. Romney believes in the triune God.

And avoids entirely the question of whether he believes that Satan was a brother of Jesus.

That is why he included it in his message.

[Graybeard58]

The peak of my sympathy for Mitt Romney came when he was.........

The peak of my sympathy for Mitt Romney came when he was-----Never. He is a liberal who is trying to present himself as a conservative.

[Coldwater Creek]

Would someone please explain just what a Christian fundamentalist is?

[Sherman Logan]

And right now Mitt Romney would be evoking the large number of founding fathers who were agnostics.

Not factually correct. Some were deists or theists, and quite a few were probably not particularly devout Christians. But I am not aware of any who were actual agnostics.

Even Tom Paine, far and away the most publically anti-religious of the leading men of the Revolution, and who was driven from America as an atheist, was actually a deist.

[Past Your Eyes]

I think it’s sort of the same as “neo-con”. It’s a slur that means whatever unflattering, disparaging thing you want it to mean at that particular moment.

[Coldwater Creek]

I think that you right!

[maine-iac7]

BUT it dodges the question of whether Gov. Romney believes in the triune God.

hmmm - kinda like many Christian churches 'dodge' the fact that, for a long time after the Crucification, there was NO belief in the 'triune God"? There was NO "Virgin Mary", Mary Magdalene was NOT a whore, etc...?

The view of God was that of a triad, rather than a trinity. For Example: "Justin Martyr was the first prolific writer to clearly teach a plurality within the Godhead. He even numbered them, saying, "We reasonably worship [Jesus Christ], having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third."11 Again he said, "There is … another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things; who is also called an Angel, http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/trinhistory.htm

There is, and always will be, differences in interpretation = each entitled to follow their own beliefs, but this vitriolic condemnation of anyone who doesn't ascribe to your empirical knowledge that leaves you, in theory, the right to speak for God, is subject to and tantamount to the ultimate pomposity....and intolerance. Judge NOT.

I think God, the Father and His Son, Jesus The Christ, will be the ultimate judge on who is and who is not in His fold...Not judgmental holier-than-thou's who feel they have the last word to speak - and condemn - for God.

What if - just what if - God the Father is the God of all the Universe - of the Super Universe, and the LOGOS, His First Born Son, Jesus the Christ, is our - from our little corner of the Universe - direct contact to the Father is through Him? Who said that? Oh yes, Jesus said that. "No one comes to the Father except through me. "

[TLI]

It would have been nice to discover that Fred Thompson, currently devoting his entire campaign to a tour of Southern gun stores, was as great a guy as he seemed on “Law & Order.” ... Except that he isn’t.

Right. Fred is a better guy than Mizz. Gail Collins thinks.

...Except that everyone including Mizz Collins assumes that Mizz Collins actually DOES think.

Gail Collins (born November 25, 1945) was the Editorial Page Editor of The New York Times from 2001 to January 1, 2007. She was the first woman Editorial Page Editor at the Times. Before the Editorial Page, Collins was an editorial board member and columnist on the op-ed page. On October 12, 2006, she announced that she would step down as Editorial Page Editor, effective this year. Collins took the year off to write a book, and returned to the Times as a columnist starting in July 2007. Her column appears on Thursdays and Saturdays.

Born in Cincinnati, Ohio, as Gail Gleason, Collins has a degree in journalism from Marquette University and an M.A. in government from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Prior to The New York Times, Collins wrote for the New York Daily News, Newsday, Connecticut Business Journal, United Press International, and the Associated Press in New York City.

Collins also founded the Connecticut State News Bureau which operated from 1972 to 1977 and provided coverage of the state capital and Connecticut politics. When it was sold, the company served more than thirty weekly and daily newspaper clients.

Beyond her work as a journalist, Collins has published several books; Scorpion Tongues: Gossip, Celebrity and American Politics, America's Woman: Four Hundred Years of Dolls, Drudges, Helpmates, and Heroines, and The Millennium Book which she co-authored with her husband Dan Collins.

She was also a journalism instructor at Southern Connecticut State University.

She is married to Dan Collins of CBS.

A real piece of work, eh? Looks like a to-the-core Democrat commie. Check out some of her other "contributions."

[BenLurkin]

Good post. I don’t agree with you but thank you for making an intelligent, well argued and friendly reply.

I am curious though about something I hadn’t heard before — are you saying that Mormons do not believe in the virgin birth of Christ?

[maine-iac7]

are you saying that Mormons do not believe in the virgin birth of Christ?

No - I'm saying that the early Christians believed that, as is stated in the Bible several times, that Mary had other children after Jesus - the most prominent being the next in the hierarchal line to take up the role as head of the church in Jerusalem, Jesus' blood brother, James (The Just), who led the church, with Peter and John as his two head councilors, until James was stoned to death = killed by the Temple priests, in 62 AD.

There is a plethora of evidence, including in the New Testament, that Jesus had brothers and sisters = blood brothers and sisters.

And much has been written about it, especially James. After James was killed, the mantle fell to another family member, Simon -= either a brother or first cousin...but the blood line connection had to be 'buried' if the Church of Rome was going to establish itself as the power, claiming Peter and the Apostolic succession...

This is, perhaps one of the best books concerning James, and the family of Jesus.

this painting, at least this section of it, follows the formula for Iconic paintings = mild, expressionless, faces.

It also contains "secret messages" - to impart beliefs to those who can 'see' without being put to the burning stake.

The message here is - The two faces are almost identical - , ie, blood brothers. The robes are and the hair style are the same - indicating the sharing of same beliefs...(Indeed, the hair style, long and pulled back into a long braid in back (interestingly, the same hair style on the figure in the Shroud of Turin,) was indicative of the Carmalite sect of the Essenes - the marrying Essenes. Mt. Carmel and it's Essene establishment was a stones throw from Nazareth...

Then, if you look at the entire painting, there seems to be an even deeper message:

"(Follower of Cimabue - (the painter Cimabue (really Cenno di Pepe, but people call him Cimabue) was born in Florence, Italy, around 1240 AD)

composite view: Christ between Saint Peter and Saint James Major, late 13th century

Andrew W. Mellon Collection<)

Now the painting departs dramatically from the formula for Iconic painting, with a fiercely scowling Peter glaring across Jesus at James...Peter is holding a 'quiet' cross and clutching "the Keys" signifying the Church of Rome (Early Christians did not use the cross as a symbol of the church) =

James, in the same color robes as Jesus and holding a scroll - signifying leadership? =

I find it interesting, taken with the plethora of other evidence available - particularly when we factor in Paul, the self-appointed Apostle, whom James, Peter and John held in contempt for many years and even alluded to as the False Prophet -

One could research and study "all things Jesus" for ever...

[TheThirdRuffian]

“are you saying that Mormons do not believe in the virgin birth of Christ?”

I can’t speak for him, but most protestant denominations recognize the virgin birth, but wholly reject the “sinless and ever-virginal” Mary, as the infiltration of pagan Roman beliefs (in particular, Diana worship) into the Roman Catholic Church teacings.

It’s pretty clear from reading the original text that Mary had a normal healthy marriage with Joseph and had several half-siblings (James being one of several).

The RCC has several complicated twists and explainations to try to get around this (they’re cousins!), but a fair reading of the text weighs against them.

More important to me, the original prophecy said nothing about “eternal virgin” but only “virgin birth” -— making this belief a bit “extra.”

The “ever sinless” bit re: Mary is in direct conflict with incontestable passages that state that Jesus was the only sinless human.

[SoConPubbie]

Would someone please explain just what a Christian fundamentalist is?

It is whatever the MSM needs it to be at that time to help them bash conservatives.

[BenLurkin]

Found some info on what we were discussing: http://www.mrm.org/topics/jesus-christ/redefining-virgin-birth-mormonisms-teaching-concerning-natural-conception-jesus