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To: SkyPilot

Funny. I’m a Christian BECAUSE I’m a Mormon.

My religion has so much to offer spiritually, scripturally, emotionally, and intellectually.

My religion solves the most intractable problem facing theists today - How can an all good, all powerful, and all knowing God exist in the face of physical and moral evil?

Can your religion do likewise? Does it explain why the earthquake destroyed the orphanage? Does it explain why an all good, all powerful God with perfect knowledge of the future allowed Hitler to exist and do what he did? Does your religion explain why some babies experience horrible agony and pain from cancer, spina bifida, and other sources?

Of course not. Determinism and free will theodicies are incapable of resolving these problems which is why atheists have consistently defeated theist philosophers in debates.

Hey! Does your religion explain the origins of the universe in a manner that doesn’t violate common sense? Or can you only come up with the Unmoved Mover deity?

What say you?


597 posted on 12/08/2007 3:38:56 PM PST by Edward Watson (Fanatics with guns beat liberals with ideas)
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To: Edward Watson

So it’s turtles all the way down for you, eh?


603 posted on 12/08/2007 3:48:44 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Edward Watson; greyfoxx39
Funny. I’m a Christian BECAUSE I’m a Mormon.

Being a Christian means following Christ - only.

Your church doesn't - and I can post link, after link of why that is true.

Here is just one:

Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19). Mormons have preferred to be called "saints"; however, in the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity.

My religion solves the most intractable problem facing theists today - How can an all good, all powerful, and all knowing God exist in the face of physical and moral evil?

The bible tells us this answer - not Joseph Smith or any of your "prophets."

Can your religion do likewise? Does it explain why the earthquake destroyed the orphanage? Does it explain why an all good, all powerful God with perfect knowledge of the future allowed Hitler to exist and do what he did? Does your religion explain why some babies experience horrible agony and pain from cancer, spina bifida, and other sources?

Yes. Evil exists because mankind is sinful. The world is fallen - but it will not always be so.

The brillaint Christian (not a Mormon) C.S. Lewis addressed this far better than you attempted to:

“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too-for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist-in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless-I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality-namely my idea of justice-was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning.” -C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity

Here is a link to a friend of mine. He is originally from India, now he lives in Georgia. His name is Ravi Zacharias.

He spoke to your LDS church. He reached out to you, but I know now the LDS did not hear his words:

Ravi Zacharias in LDS Tabernacle

The LDS church only wanted to hear what they wanted to hear.

Of course not.

Presumptuous of you. Sorry - you are mistaken (see above).

Determinism and free will theodicies are incapable of resolving these problems which is why atheists have consistently defeated theist philosophers in debates

That is a 50 cent way of saying of there is evil in the world, and there will be until Christ returns.

Hey! Does your religion explain the origins of the universe in a manner that doesn’t violate common sense? Or can you only come up with the Unmoved Mover deity?

OK! Do you wish me to defend Christianity and the origin of the Universe in terms of 'common sense' for you? I will - but before I do that - you give me your side. You brought it up first.

609 posted on 12/08/2007 4:02:53 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Edward Watson
Does it explain why the earthquake destroyed the orphanage?

Sure!

 Romans 9:14-18
 14.  What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
 15.  For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
 16.  It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 17.  For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
 18.  Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
 
 Jeremiah 18:1-6
 1.  This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:
 2.  "Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message."
 3.  So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel.
 4.  But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
 5.  Then the word of the LORD came to me:
 6.  "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.
 
  Isaiah 45:9-12
   9.  "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, `What are you making?' Does your work say, `He has no hands'?
 10.  Woe to him who says to his father, `What have you begotten?' or to his mother, `What have you brought to birth?'
 11.  "This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
 12.  It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts.
 
 Isaiah 64:8
 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.
 
Now what is the LDS organization's answer?

652 posted on 12/08/2007 5:35:32 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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