Posted on 12/06/2007 9:41:16 AM PST by NYer
Well, this is a horse of a different color. If I’m not mistaken, the National church doesn’t have much authority over the dioceses. As in the Catholic Church, the bish is lord of his domain. While I can see a diocese making the argument that they have say over whether a given parish gets to keep property when they leave, I’m not at all sure the national church can make the same claim. In fact I’m pretty sure they don’t have a leg to stand on. The bishop has a claim because when the wymynpriests were first foisted on the faithful they made the parishes sign over the deeds to the dioceses. But the natchrch is just like a board of directors with the presbish as CEO — I don’t think they have any property in their own right.
There are a number of options. The Continuing churches, AMiA, and CANA; LCMS or RC for high church folks, PCA for low church folks.
I was a sixth-generation Episcopalian - my gggg grandfather John Bale was baptized in 1795 at St. Gile's Cripplegate, where Milton is buried and Cromwell was married. If your folks have been Piskie that long I would be VERY surprised.
We were among those who endured the new Prayer Book (and all its temporary purple, blue, yellow and chartreuse predecessors), goofy New Age preachers, Biblical revisionism and then the whole Vicki Gene controversy and all its fallout. We fought until it was clear it was pointless, when the new bishop was one of the delegates to go soft-soap Lambeth and our rector retired and the vestry couldn't find a replacement that hadn't been infected with the Zeitgeist (the national church controls the seminaries and will not ordain anyone who doesn't toe the party line.)
At that point it was clear that the church my family had attended for six generations was dead and rotten.
The rector of our new Catholic parish was kind, sympathetic and welcoming, and gave a big block of time out of his busy day (he has 2,000 families in his church) to talk with a couple of renegade high church Anglicans. We were pleased to find that in matters of doctrine and practice there was very little difference, much less than we had expected and nothing that could not be dealt with honestly.
I simply offer that possible path to anyone who has finally reached the point of separation that we reached in August 2003.
As I have mentioned to somebody before, we were sitting mourning beside a dead body when Mother Church was standing patiently smiling behind us all the time.
What sort of person would I be if I did not at least point out to you the path that has brought us out of all that shouting and threats and bullying and hateful controversy, into light and peace?
We indeed were abandoned both by our bishop and our new rector.
When the rector opined during a sermon that anybody who didn't support Robinson 100% was not just wrong but evil, we left and never went back.
“Never play chess with an Episcopalian because they can’t tell a bishop from a queen.”
Aaaargh! Was that really necessary? You made me spill my carefully mixed martini (stirred, not shaken) all over myself.
Out of curiosity, why? Why not entice back?
Just remember AmericanMother, many (many) can give a similar testimony of stepping out into another church/denomination from the ‘piskies, with the same welcoming and loving attitude. I attend a church body in a MUCH less than ideal setting (chairs in a YMCA gym) that’s as peaceful and Christlike as it gets—a congregation of the Anglican Mission in America. I wish we had a little building at least, and I wish they did classical music, and had more regard for liturgy, but, they don’t, and...it’s still a great fellowship. The gospel is faithfully preached every Sunday, and the Eucharist faithfully offered.
There are many paths within Christ’s earthly-separated (only) body where Episcopalians can find shelter from the deathly pall of their denomination. Those of us who’ve gone-evangelical, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran or other Christian body, should not despise each other—but recognize those who love Christ from all over the Christian map.
After all, if somebody doesn't believe in what they're doing, why bother to leave the Episcopal church in the first place? You can "not believe" just as well right there (and have good music, vestments and architecture, but . . . ichabod.)
In many ways the ELCA is more liberal that the ECA. The same things are happening in both groups but the ELCA is just taking it without complaint. While I have differences of theology opinion with the ECA, I have nothing but respect for those who have been members for generations taking this tough stand.
One thing I have learned since leaving the ELCA is that no church is perfect and being loyal to a demonimation is not necessarily healthy. Most conservative protestant groups have local congregations that have unique beliefs, ie they are more independent in their practices.
I have since leaving ELCA, spent most of my time in a Baptist church (GARBC). We moved to PA a few years ago and attend a E-Free church. I will probably join them.
Good luck in your decisions, May The Lord guide you as he promises.
true enough what you say - but whenever there is a new bishop to be appointed to a diocese (at least for the Episcopals, I think this is so), they have to agree with the National church on these matters or they don’t get to be bishop. That was my experience in north Florida, any how. That is also why I am no longer attending any ECUSA churches.
I understand what you're saying. It must be very sad for them to see what is
happening to their church. Remind them "The beautiful liturgy and sacraments,"
is just as precious to Christ coming straight from their hearts as any
adornments prescribed by the Episcopalian church.
I hear you. I became Catholic because being Anglican became impossible for me.
Were he standing up straight, his pectoral cross would be visible; you can see the one edge of it peeking out from underneath the part of his cape that’s over his left arm.
>>It must be very sad for them to see what is
happening to their church.<<
Yes, it is. Sad, and painful*, especially for those of us who grew up in the church. But, I must sincerely thank two groups who have kept my spirits up when they needed it most: The posts and comments here by fellow Freepers and a wonderful little publication called “World Magazine” (worldmagdotcom), which is sort of a Time or Newsweek for Christians.
As Episcopalians, we brought a lot of this on ourselves - we welcomed all: ex-Catholics, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists would worship side by side, agreeing to disagree. Trouble is, once the camel’s nose got under the tent, the rest of the beast soon came along with it. Please keep in mind, too, that although the National HQ is leftist (I once bought a “Modern Saints” Harvey Milk postcard there), most local congregations are surprisingly conservative. Therein lies the rub.
* And sometimes funny: a National Review wag once defined the church as a “dating services for lesbians and gays financed primarily by large real estate holdings in New York city.”
The vote was affirmative...
Some news links:
http://www.fresnobee.com/updates/story/253673.html
http://www.kpic.com/news/national/12279481.html
http://www.episcopal-life.org/79901_92524_ENG_HTM.htm
Leaving the Episcopal Church, for me, was not so much about the homosexual issue as it was about the lack of discernment in the leadership of the Church that would ordain and promote a practicing abomination in God’s sight. Such a person as Roberts nor the people who promoted him should not be the ‘poimen’ shepherding the Saints.
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