Army chief says troops strained, calls pace 'unsustainable'

Gov Exec.com ^ | Dec 5, 2007 | National Journal's CongressDailyAM

[fishergirl]

What a wonderful Christmas present!! Enjoy!

[af_vet_rr]

In the '70's we were underfunded, understaffed and our equipment was falling apart. The Carter military.

That's the understatement of the century! I loved seeing lots of aircraft idle because they needed one thing or another.

But we, perhaps foolishly, thought if we were called upon to fight the Sov's in Germany (the primary mission my unit trained for) we could get the job done.

It's not that at all - I'm sure you guys could have put up a helluva fight. It's just that the infrastructure wasn't in place to support you guys for very long which would probably lead to things going nuclear fairly fast (and when I say that, I mean NATO launching nukes, not the Warsaw Pact).

If the Soviets/Warsaw Pact were able to get through the Fulda Gap and get things moving along, we just did not have the people and equipment to buy us the time until troops could start pouring in from the US (and given the state of the Air Force/Navy back then, I don't know that the amount of reinforcements you guys needed could have arrived in a timely enough manner). The people with stars on their shoulders would have to make decisions of whether to give up Germany or start getting into decisions that nobody wants to make.

[af_vet_rr]

like i said in another post, carter gutted the military...having to strip aircraft for spare parts was totally asinine...and no fuel to fly ‘em with.....or tools to fix ‘em with....yeah, i remember those days...

The funniest (saddest) thing I remember from that time, was Carter and some foreign dignitaries visited a base where I was on a TDY for a few weeks, and the base put on a show - had all of the aircraft out, parked nicely, were showing them around a couple that were on display, letting them sit in the cockpit for pictures, etc., and one of the pilots stationed there told me that of the aircraft lined up, that had all been cleaned up all nice and pretty, probably half wouldn't fly. Carter may or may not have known that, but you can bet the dignitaries sure didn't know that.

It was kind of scary at times. If something had happened to Israel, and they needed aircraft or parts and weapons for aircraft, one or the other of us was not going to have much of an air force left.

[LucyJo]

Our job on the homefront is to pressure the Congress Critters to do what is right, and fund our troops, when they can’t bring themselves to do it on their own.

[Future Snake Eater]

What’s wrong with what he’s saying? GEN Casey would know far better than anyone on this forum whether the Army’s deployment pace is unsustainable. If you believe it’s not that bad, I suggest you find the nearest recruiter and sign up to help out.

[colorado tanker]

We had prepositioned equipment in Europe, so the plan was for us to fly passenger jet (probably commandeered commercial) to Europe, pick up our stuff and roll. I was load plans officer, so I know you guys didn't have anywhere close to enough airlift to take our stuff overseas fast.

I was in a worldwide command post exercise (war game) where we gamed defending against a conventional attack through Fulda. We stopped them a little over halfway across W. Germany, sustaining heavy casualties. There was a Clancy novel about a conventional Warsaw Pact attack that had the same result. I always wondered if he was privy to those results. :-))

[af_vet_rr]

I was in a worldwide command post exercise (war game) where we gamed defending against a conventional attack through Fulda. We stopped them a little over halfway across W. Germany, sustaining heavy casualties. There was a Clancy novel about a conventional Warsaw Pact attack that had the same result. I always wondered if he was privy to those results. :-))

Clancy may have talked to and read the books and writings of Sir John Hackett who wrote The Third World War: August 1985 (as well as a companion/sequel, The Third World War: The Untold Story).

This book was written during our "hollow" years, and I remember attending a lecture he gave several years after it came out, and he was very blunt in admitting why he wrote it - he firmly believed that if we didn't beef up our conventional forces in Western Europe as well as our naval and aerial resupply assets, that we would be facing a World War III if the Soviets thought we could be defeated on the ground or if they felt they had no choice, and that if we weren't decisive, that it would go nuclear. He said it was meant to send a signal to the civilian leadership of the countries in NATO that things could go bad rapidly and that you can't pretend that the Soviets would always remain on their side of Europe.

It's kind of interesting how he predicted the Soviet Union might break up if it went nuclear - some people scoffed at the notion back when it came out that the Soviet Union could fall apart so rapidly, but I bet those types were surprised when the Berlin Wall came down and when the Soviet Union did collapse.

[trooprally]

Yes indeed, absolutely great news. *** SMILING ***

We (wife and kids will be up from NC) will be seeing him in at Dullas Airport a few days before Christmas, then [Mrs] T and I are heading down to my brother’s in NC, where our son and kids will come over Christmas afternoon.

There have been several FReepers and Lurkers who have sent him packages and emails, so they’ll also be with us, Welcome Home signs in hand.

[Mr] T

[LibLieSlayer]

It is not what he is saying but the venue in which he demagogues. I will say and think what I wish to... and outside of a few mods and Jim himself telling me not to... I’ll speak my mind. If you don’t like it sorry. BTW, that is a left wing chicken-hawk argument that you use... are you a lefty? If not, why do you post like one?

LLS

[colorado tanker]

We were very concerned about a possible Sov conventional attack. Many were very quietly convinced the feckless Carter would never defend against a Sov conventional attack with nuclear weapons, even though that had been policy since the Eisenhower administration. So, we had to figure out how to get the job done ourselves, despite being badly outnumbered in Europe.

Thank God for Ronald Reagan.

[RDTF]

“Thank God for Ronald Reagan”

Amen! Now if only God would send us another one just like him.

[Future Snake Eater]

No, just a rightie combat vet who’s tired of big talk from keyboard commandos. You’re “you don’t know me, I do what I want!” nonsense is completely childish. As is the behavior of Congress, which is partly what GEN Casey was addressing. And I have friends who are being deployed, come back for school for maybe a year (usually less) and then go right back to Iraq on another 1+ year deployment. Tell me how that’s sustainable and tell me how the General was wrong.

[StarCMC]

That is so cool! I wish you the happiest Christmas of your lives! *HUG*

[Steel Wolf]

There’s nothing like pointing out the obvious to get people fired up. ;-)

[LibLieSlayer]

I didn’t say he was wrong... and I said it quite clearly... I just think the venue he used to complain was incorrect. You are the one attacking others for having an opinion... and then you miss the point of the post... Once again... Casey may be 100% correct but the left-wing media is using him and he should know better. This is not the first time that his words have been used to hurt the Military and their mission.

I have at least 6 friends in Afghanistan and 4 in Iraq right now. I spend a lot of time and money helping through Adopt a Platoon, Oliver North’s group, the USO, VFW, Air Guard EM Club and several other relief groups. You shouldn’t be so quick to condemn those you know nothing about.

LLS

[maine-iac7]

I hope your grandson knows and sees that he has supporters back home

I keep him filled in on every positive news report on support - I am also a columnist in my home area and had a very successful "Adopt a Platoon" campaign that resulted in 24+ boxes going to them for Christmas - including from his old schools - some of the darlingnest drawings and notes from the elementary kids! - some are late, like the middle school and VFW in getting boxes together and they won't get there for Christmas - which I'm thinking will be great as they will probably experience a great drop off after Christmas - but they will STILL be hungry and cold...

His tiny unit was featured on ABC in a special film by embeds who simply filmed as it was happening - no spin. (Frightening fr an old gramma to watch) -

For anyone who didn't catch it - you can see it by going to SETAF - (Southern European Task Force home base for the 173rd Paratroopers) at

http://www.setaf.army.mil/

scroll down to "Go behind the front lines in Afghanistan

and watch the 4 short segments -

These guys are like ducks in a shooting gallery - (Also catch the Jan Issue of Vanity Fair - now on stands)

Gates needs to forget about his toes being stepped on and let the Marines come in to help...Gates forces there were calibrated on the promise of additional troops from NATO - which NATO has reneged on - So accept the offer from the Marines, you idiot.

I understand that the commander of the Marines has already sent men for training in mountain fighting anyway and they will be ready by spring - BLESS HIM!

Now I'm waiting for Gen. Petraeus to 'make it happen'

[maine-iac7]

Taking an axe to wasteful military spending would be great, but there's a huge amount of bureaucratic entrenchment that will fight to the absolute bitter end than let itself be reformed

I'm hoping that the recent and unprecedented new mission of General Pertraeus = being sent back home to assume a new role at the DOD - looking at the current commanders in the field to ascertain who's still trying to fight a gorilla war with old convention tactics - and doing some shuffling around - I know, right off, of two I'd like to seek shipped back to wherever - maybe "early retired" =

[maine-iac7]

During my tour in the 70’s I never recall any of my superior officers complaining and we, were treated like crap in the late 70’s for even being in the military.

Thanks to the treasonous lower than scum, Teddy Kennedy and his protege, J ffffing Kerry and cohorts.

My grandson's dad was in the Marines and 'over there' when you were - WE WILL NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.

The same crowd of sedionists have tried, from day one, to pull off another fiasco like they did to Vietnam and the soldiers and Marines - but they have been spectacularly unsuccessful this time.

Their last straw is, as they did for Vietnam, withholding funds -

We all have to stand up and shout NO _ and Hey Nancy of the Plastic Face and Reid the Rat - FUND OUR TROOPS NOW - you are not fooling us. YOU, not President Bush, are the problem.

[maine-iac7]

It was a damn good thing the Soviets never tried anything while Carter was in office.

DAmn right...

Bet they're still kicking themselves for that

[maine-iac7]

I have friends who have children serving over there, and they'll be chatting with them (including video chatting) and they'll hear something and their kid will say "something happened, I've gotta run, see ya" as they are picking up a rifle.

yep. Talking with my grandson in the mountains of Afghanistan one day (They have been in over 500 firefights since getting there in June!) and he had been able to get back a bit out the worst of it where there was running water and phones - all of a sudden, I heard a loud noise and he said: "Gotta go, Gramma." and hung up - incoming mortars = and then I got to see him and his unit "Battle Co," featured in the ABC film last month - embeds went with them for weeks on end and simply filmed as it was going down - no spin.

You can see the film on the military site for the 173rd Pararoopers

http://www.setaf.army.mil/

scroll down to

Go behind the front lines in Afghanistan

and watch the 4 short segments - and they have lost more since - including their camp dog, Tank, (who is featured in the film) through actions by the barbarians they are fighting - my g'son now wears "Tanks" dog tags and there has been/will be pay back.

They are featured in the Jan issue of Vanity FAir now on stands -

Gates needs to pocket his ego and let the Marines come in to help as they want to