that American criminals aren't willing to.
Posted on 12/04/2007 10:21:49 PM PST by Hardshell
Edited on 12/05/2007 4:02:19 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
DPS was watching burglars shot by Horn 10:16 PM CST on Tuesday, December 4, 2007 By Rucks Russell / 11 News Even before their deaths prompted a series of heated debates about the use of deadly force, detectives at the Department of Public Safety had their eye on Diego Ortiz and Miguel Dejesus.
The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor’s home last month.
According to a DPS memo obtained by 11 News, the department was investigating the use of Puerto Rican birth certificates by Colombians seeking to obtain Texas driver’s licenses.
Both Ortiz and Dejesus had applied for licenses. Dejesus listed his country of origin as Puerto Rico, but both men were Colombian.
Apparently, the DPS is investigating hundreds of immigrants who may have used illegal papers to get Texas licenses.
But that’s not all.
A much wider probe has been launched into an organized syndicate of Colombians who are engaged in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins – just like the one Ortiz and Dejesus were involved in last month in Pasadena.
That day, Joe Horn and a shotgun stood in the way of the suspected thieves, but in many instances the suspects have gotten away.
The ATF, ICE and DPS have reportedly formed a task force to bring the crime wave to an end.
The burglars are said to be very effective at what they do, conducting extensive surveillance on their targets before striking. Some of the suspects are extremely violent.
The investigations have already led to several arrests.
The only thing Mr. Horn did wrong was to shoot himself in the foot first, by calling 911 and venting to the dispatcher. That is going to cost him his gun rights, sure as shootin.
Possibly his freedom.
My 'property' is a portion of my lifetime. It cannot be 'replaced', ie. the many hours missed of the growth of my children were traded for that 'stuff'. For anyone too lazy or self centered to spend their time earning, and instead chooses to risk life & limb by taking in five minutes what I may have spent five years to acquire is pure EVIL and should be dealt with accordingly...my .02...
Horn didn't think they were burglarizing his neighbor's home, he watched them do it.
Man, that's irritating.
Yes, but if you only read the headline ....
When two men enter a home, they don’t know the home is empty. They may think they do, but they could be wrong. And realizing this themselves, they are prepared to take on the home owner. Who knows what they were prepared to do to anyone that happened upon them in the home.
I once knew a very attractive mid twenties professional woman. She was a real sweatheart. She had been married about a year. One afternoon she wasn’t feeling well and went home early. They found her body the next day. Home invasion robbers had killed her when she entered her home and surprised them.
LOL. That’s a bit of a stretch, but I know what you mean.
Evidently these two men’s family values didn’t stop at the border...
I agree Gilbo. My thoughts run the same way.
ping
B) Nor do I believe it is appropriate to prosecute someone who uses deadly force to protect himself or his neighbor's property.
Mr Horn should be fined for reckless discharge of a firearm inside city limits.
Note to CNN: Saw your segment on this story this morning. You left a bit out, didn’t you?
Further there is a ripple effect. Unknown to us, but with out doubt, fellow running mates of these men, and men like them are thinking twice about doing this. This is a benefit. As an example this is why homes of known members of the Hell’s Angles are rarely robbed. Robbers feel it is not worth the risk. If the risk is such everywhere, there will be few robberies.
We need more of this, not less.
The burglars were just stealing things Americans won’t steal....
However, it is my personal POV that nothing I own is worth another human life. Given the opportunity to shoot a burgler when he could be allowed to walk I likely would not.
At least mention him in the dispatches.
Timeout fella! (Putting down wiffle-bat.) Oh-kayyy,
are you here to hurt us or just take our stuff?
Thought they were burglarizing his neighbor's home?
THEY WERE! One of them at least came towards Horn and was killed in Horn's yard.
What I saw on TV yesterday, a group of blacks and Hispanics were walking towards some elderly white citizens who were carrying signs. It reminded me of the final confrontation of in the movie "Gunfight at the OK Coral" except for backing down after a little scuffle.
The citizens are standing up, something which is foreign to the Federal Government, and things may get ugly fast allover the nation.
“As a general rule, I don’t like seeing someone killed over property.”
I’ve heard that sentiment many times. I remember it being debated in law school. It’s a relatively recent view in the law, and there are many problems with it, as I see it. Some of them you have ably pointed out.
I keep thinking of what Robert Bork said: “You can’t create new rights, you can just shift existing rights around,” or words to that effect.
As soon as you say that a homeowner has no right to use deadly force to protect his property, you are also saying that a burglar or a robber has a right to steal without the risk of someone using deadly force against him. That’s just wrong. And it’s lead to some horrendous civil suits by robbers against persons protecting their property.
Once a person makes the decision to invade someone else’s castle, he should be held to have abandoned all rights, in my opinion.
“Property is acquired by the spending of days of a persons life in work. You could measure things not in dollars but work days. When you take property, you take life.”
Absolutely. And, patriots have died to prevent the confiscation of property. What else is “No taxation without representation?”
I don’t see a whole lot of difference between the government stealing your property and the government protecting the lives of people who are stealing your property.
Isn’t that what the ‘clean hands’ concept is all about. I know that in a civil case, a person who has committed illegalities in a matter cannot bring suit in the matter.
In a matter of fraud, the court will not hear a case where both parties have committed a fraud, and one party sues the other.
BTW, I agree with your take on it.
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