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To: ml/nj
Listen pinhead.

There is a promising start. I can't wait for the sober, reasoned points that are sure to follow.

The amendment was written 160 years ago.

Really? I have a one volume set on my youngest child's shelf called Middle School Mathematics, and in it one learns that 1866 was 141 years ago.

I have a 20 volume set on my shelf precisely to identify how word use has shifted over time. (It's called the Oxford English Dictionary.)

My single volume microprint OED is much more economical with respect to currency and space.

It reveals no epoch-making change in the meaning of the word "jurisdiction" since 1868.

however, to make sure we used a more technically precise definition, I consulted not only my OED but my Black's Law dictionary, Black's informs us that "jurisdiction" is the "power and authority of a court to hear and determine a judicial proceeding and power to render particular judgment in question." And according to US law, non-citizens present on US soil are fully subject to the jurisdiction of US courts unless they hold diplomatic immunity.

In law there is something called "legislative history," which you seem to want to ignore.

There is both legislative and judicial history, of course. And Congress has not only moved to extend its jurisidiction over persons on US soil far more broadly in the years since the 14th's 1868 ratification (we were just discussing the Snyder Act earlier on the thread) but the Supreme Court has affirmed this broad interpretation, most recently in Plyler v. Doe.

No one who was part of framing the fourteenth amendment and no one in their right mind would suggest that just because we put invaders in prison sometimes, we should grant their children automatic citizenship.

You use the term "invader" emotionally, not analytically.

Children of citizens of countries who are in open hostilities with the US are excluded.

99.9999% of illegal aliens currently incarcerated in the US are not incarcerated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, but under the jurisdiction of US or state law.

115 posted on 12/02/2007 9:17:54 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake
I have a one volume set on my youngest child's shelf called Middle School Mathematics

Yeah. But I took the SATs before they were dumbed down, maybe for folks like you. My Math SAT score can be represented entirely by closed curves. How'd you do, Sherlock?

(They didn't have a test for proofreading, BTW.)

ML/NJ

117 posted on 12/02/2007 9:29:32 AM PST by ml/nj
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