Posted on 11/24/2007 6:05:40 PM PST by Travis McGee
....the Canadian National Post agrees with your statement regarding outright fraud in the subprime mess....
They are antiAmerica and will mekeup anything they can to smear. They are after all Canadian and thus irrelevant
If you look inside many of the SIV's you will see not just mortgages, but interest rate cap swaps, interest rate swaps and currency swaps, which in any event would seem a necessary step to sell these things as "AAA" investments overseas.
It might be that the overseas mortgage holders will suffer no currency loss. That loss has been passed to someone else. Who I wonder? Wouldn't be the banks that structured this stuff in the first place. Anyway, someone is taking huge losses on the dollar drop. We just don't know who.
Petronski, the legal situation is not so clear. There was another case in Ohio, where another judge dismissed foreclosures on another 27 mortgages for similar reasons, citing the Deutshce Bank case with approval. In this case the mortgages had not been assigned either. It was not just a matter of finding the paperwork. The decision is here. http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/files/RoseRuling20071115.pdf
.
It and the content of the DB decision were discussed here.
here http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1927186/posts.
Mentioning a hurricane warning to neighbors who watch only sitcoms doesn't mean one "wants a hurricane to hit."
I think that will be true in the long term, but in the medium and short term this mess will contribute to the global credit freeze up.
http://digital.library.unt.edu/govdocs/crs/permalink/meta-crs-1247:1
CRS Report for Congress
02/16/99 German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder announced the creation of a fund, projected to amount to $3.5 billion to $4.6 billion and financed by 12 German companies, to compensate victims of the Nazis during World War II. The creation of the Remembrance, Responsibility, and the Future fund, according to remarks by CRS-16 Chancellor Schroeder, was to counter lawsuits, particularly class action suits, and to remove the basis of the campaign being led against German industry and our country. Payments are expected to start by September 1, 1999. The 12 companies contributing to this fund are: Allianz insurance, BASF, Bayer, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler (formerly Daimler-Benz), Degussa, Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank, Hoechst, Krupp, Siemens, and Volkswagen. This initial list of 12 companies includes automakers, banks, chemical production, insurance, and other German industrial sectors accused of profiting from forced/slave labor during World War II
03/31/99 A class action complaint was filed in San Francisco Superior Court by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, California Governor Gray Davis, and representatives of Holocaust survivors who reside in California against German and American companiesthat used slave labor and Aryanized Jewish assets duringthe Holocaust. The companies named in the lawsuit are Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank, Commerzbank AG, Deutsche Lufthansa, VIAG, Ford Motor Company, and General Motors Corp.
06/10/99 Industry representatives of 16 German companies announced their participation in the creation of a compensation fund in an effort to settle slave labor lawsuits against the following companies that profited from Nazi-era slave labor: Allianz, BASF,Bayer,BMW, Commerzbank, Daimler Chrysler (settling on behalf of Daimler-Benz), Deutsche Bank, Degussa-Huels, Deutz, Dresdner Bank, Thyssen-Krupp, Hoechst, RAG, Siemens, Volkswagen, and Veba. Called the Remembrance, Responsibility, and the Future fund, it will be administered with the help of the German government and estimated at $1.7 billion. Lump-sum payments would be based on need and on 6-months or longer of slave labor service. Attorneys representing victims in the class action lawsuits against these companies charge that the total fund isinadequate and that 6 months or longer of forced/slave labor was the exception rather than the rule since many laborers lasted barely 3 months under such brutal conditions. The aim of these German companies in setting up this fund is to protect them from any future claims.
12/23/99 The American Jewish Committee released a list of German companies that announced their participation in the German Compensation Fund. They are: Agfa (owned by Bayer); Agfa-Gaevert (Belgian owned); Allianz, Bahlsen; BASF; Bayer; Beiersdorff AG; BMW; Bosch; Brandt; Buderus; Carl Zeis Foundation (all subsidiaries included); Commerzbank; Consumer Electronic AG; Continental; DaimlerChrysler; Degussa-Huls; Deutsche Bank; Deutsche Telekom; Deutz; Dillinger Huettenwerke; Dresdner Bank; Felten and Guillaume; Ford; Gemeinde Buedelsdorf (Schleswig-Holstein); Gerrisheimer Glasshettenwerke; Heraus; Henkel & Cie; Hoechst; Kloeckner AG; Kloeckner Werke (owned by VIAG); Knoll AG (owned by BASF); Lufthansa; MAN; Mannesman; Merck KG; Omnia Moebelwerke; P. Holzmann; Poppe Gummi; Porsche; Ruhrgas; RWE; Schering; Schwartau; Siemens; Stadtwerke Duesseldorf; Steinbeiss; Taming; Thyssenkrup; Veba; Veritas; Gelnhausen Vorwerk & Sohn; Volkswagen; Wieland; Ulm; Zahnradfebrik; and Zwilling J.J. HenckelsAG. For the latest update of German companies that have pledged support, scroll down and click on View List of German Companies Participating in Compensation Fundat the AJC Website:[ http://www.ajc.org/pre/germanylist.asp ].
Impending Doom takes all the fun out of decadent living - Iago
There seem to be a number of folks around here who, if they are not, sure act like shills for the so called "financial services industry."
They don't actually make extended arguments backed up with data and broadly accepted economic theory about why things are ok. Instead, like a Clintoniste spin manager, they shoot from the hip with cute and childish quips, put folks down, and try kindergarten insults - yeah well your two of them as if such insults will find a few Trillion US credit dollars to reflate the whole mess. Well, we can see their linen; it is soiled; and they need to try to cover their embarrassment with better argument than they have tried so far.
Perhaps this mess can be legally untangled, back to actual, provable ownership of the actual mortgage papers. Perhaps not.
But the bigger point is TIME.
While the many opposing legal-eagle CSI vultures attack this massacre pit of blown up bodies, attempting to put a million Humpty Dumpties back together again and figure out just who owns what, the global credit market is going to grind down.
Several brokerage houses tumbled; blue-sky investment companies formed during the happy bull market days went to smash, disclosing miserable tales of rascality; over a thousand banks caved in during 1930, as a result of marking down both of real estate and of securities; and in December occurred the largest bank failure in American financial history, the fall of the ill-named Bank of the United States in New York.
~~Only Yesterday: An Informal History of the 1920s by Fredrick Lewis Allen
Thanks for another excellent post Travis.
It is a gawdawful mess that all the king's horses cannot put back together again.
Good link. If there’s going to be such a meltdown then gold coins of varied weights buried in your backyard are the best idea. Silver is an industrial metal and a depression will kill its worth.
I the USD implodes I can see movement to a semi or full gold standard promoted by Russia and the Arabs. Russia produces gold and oil and Arabs produce lots of cheap to extract oil.
I think a lot of these perma-touts must be market commentators for CNBC and Bloomberg.
A year ago these same shills were telling us the real estate market was fundamentally solid. Now they ignore last year’s lost debate, and move back to the next line of trenches.
But we haven’t forgotten.
It’s like trying to prove which farmer owns which pig, in a million packages of sausage that came from cows and pigs on a thousand farms.
It’s all been blended and reblended. Now they are going to pick the sausages apart, and tell which bit came from which pig on which farm?
Good luck. Maybe some court someday will put these humpty dumpties back together again.
But in the meantime, this mess acts like curare on the finanial nervous system.
It is a gawdawful mess that all the king's horses cannot put back together again
But is sure was fun cooking up those whacked out CDOs and the players personally made millions and tens of millions from the action. I'll bet lots of them bought gold and other hard assets with their paper shuffling three card monte profits
So what do they care if they glance backward and see the USD turning into scrap. They got theirs -- Apres moi le deluge
I agree about gold, but I’m not sure if I agree about silver’s value going down relative to gold. If the dollar implodes, the other fiat currencies of the world will follow it down. We may wind up on some form of a gold standard, as nations and people reject new paper fiat schemes that will doubtless be offered by governments. In this event, we shall see a terrible global depression, and probably world war as force alone is available to secure needed commodities (food, water, oil, metals etc).
God help us if this comes to pass.
And even when you get the pig put back together it is still a rotten worthless carcass, although that would probably not stop you from selling futures on it.
That's a fact, and that's where we are: on the precipice.
Greenspan rolled over the would have been recession of 2001 by inflating a new housing bubble. But now there are no bubbles left for poor Ben Bernanke to inflate. We are at the end of the game.
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
~~Ludwig von Mises
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