Gorzaloon wrote: “When it is deliberate, outrageous, provocative Fighting Words that is some states and societies could have/should have gotten them shot dead.”
What if I say sinners are going to burn in Hell? Are those “deliberate, outrageous, provocative Fighting Words?” Seriously, people say offensive things all the time. Doesn’t the 1st Amendment protect offensive speech?
Keep in mind, I agree this “church” is despicable, but unless they are breaking trespassing or other laws (not related to constitutionally protected free speech), what right do we have to punish them?
The same right you would have to punish me, were I to stay awake at night dreaming up the most loathesome, provocative things possible that I were certain would infuriate you beyond all reason, and then shout them in your face.
I would hope, as a matter of honor, that your response would be something "Remedial".
One has to look at the intent. the intent is not to express, not to preach, but to outrage. As in dressing up like Hitler and attending a Bar Mitzvah, or wearing a Klan outfit and attending the Million Man March. It is deliberately planned to go as far beyond Free Speech as rape is from a wink.
They want outrage and notoriety, and should be given it in full.
“Keep in mind, I agree this “church” is despicable, but unless they are breaking trespassing or other laws (not related to constitutionally protected free speech), what right do we have to punish them?”
The families have every right to sue the hell out of them.
Not only for the “emotional” harm inflicted, but for defamation, libel per se, etc.
“In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.”
What if I say sinners are going to burn in Hell? Are those “deliberate, outrageous, provocative Fighting Words?” Seriously, people say offensive things all the time. Doesn’t the 1st Amendment protect offensive speech?
If you say, "Sinners are going to burn in Hell", that is a generic religious belief, directed at nobody in particular, and is protected under the First Amendment.
However, if you show up outside of the funeral of a young woman and hold up a sign that states "Mary Jo Billings was a whore and sinner who is going to burn in Hell" you will have crossed the line that the U.S. Supreme Court drew:
If the funeral is in the South and Mary Jo's brother, Bubba, chokes the life out of you with his bare hands, Bubba's lawyer will bring up the Fighting Words doctrine at trial simply to spare the jury any guilty feeling over the Constitution after they acquit Bubba under the time honored "He Needed Killin'" defense.
Keep in mind, I agree this “church” is despicable, but unless they are breaking trespassing or other laws (not related to constitutionally protected free speech), what right do we have to punish them?
I think that you're getting things mixed up here. Yes, the Phelps do have "the right" to say these things. Having that right keeps the government from arresting you for saying it. However, it wasn't the government that brought the suit. This was brought as a civil case by the family of a Marine (I believe) who's funeral was protested by the Phelps mob. The civil suit was for intentional ... oh damn, I can't recall the exact words... But the key is that it's for intentionally causing emotional harm, which IS actionable. Remember, just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean that you won't suffer the consequences for doing it.
This isn't the government quashing "free speech." This is a group of lawyers having to deal with the consequences of their actions.
Mark