Posted on 11/24/2007 7:44:20 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
TOPEKA | Countless flights across the country. Car rentals, gas money, food and lodging. All those cardboard signs. For the 71 members of Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church, the costs of doing business must add up.
And those costs could soon grow a lot higher. A Maryland jury recently ordered Westboro to pay nearly $11 million to the father of a fallen soldier whose funeral was the subject of one of Westboro’s protests.
Many hope the lawsuit, and future ones like it, will put the notorious church out of business for good. It’s something that new funeral picketing bans, now passed in 43 states, have proved unable to do.
(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...
I’m with you on this. Completely against what they do, but the civil award is wrong as well. It’s based on emotion rather than law. These nuts are nearly all smart attorneys who know their limits.
CitizenUSA has raised a perfectly acceptable legal, not emotional, question for discussion and followed his line of reasoning throughout in a civil manner. Attacking him for raising that question is highly inappropriate.
Few, if any, of us have so much as read the complaint much less the jury instructions and verdict in the case. As the parent of a currently serving soldier, and just as an American citizen, I am delighted the family of the slain soldier won its verdict. However, as a legal matter, it is fair to ask if the verdict and judgment will hold up on appeal and how it affects everyone’s First Amendment rights.
Ok. I read the statement wrong. So I’ll try again.
“If this is true, that someone can sue me simply for saying something that causes them emotional distress, then I don’t really have free speech any more.””
Yes you do.
If the GOVERnMENT sues you for ‘emotional distress’ and gets away with it, then you are right, you would not have any ‘free speech’ rights.
This is NOT the case, but you just don’t seem to understand it.
Trolls tend to ignore all points directed at them, as in the case of our joe here.
No matter how clear and concise the point, they will respond with more trolling.
They will also see direct statements like Eaker’s as a ‘personal attack’.
“I’ll wade in-
So... phelps is Evil and disgusting?
How about a severly wounded soldier coming back
to an American Hospital-and being greeted by-
CODE PINK! want to see their disgusting signs-
want to listen to their Mocking chants-
This board and the freepers have been fighting
these vile people for some time- we know we cannot
sue- or should we?”
“We” can’t sue them, BUT the families of those wounded soldiers can if they so choose.
Then you haven’t read the Constitution or understand that the GOVERNMENT has no legal interest in this case.
It is a CIVIL matter.
There are no ‘FREE SPEECH’ rights protections from other CITIZENS.
The BILL OF RIGHTS was written to protect you from the GOVERNMENT.
No, they are trolling.
And they claimed personal attack when it was pointed out that they twisted and added to a direct question.
Specifically, they pulled a Clinton and got mad when called on it.
Libel and Slander are NOT protected by the 1st.
The Phelps have slandered our troops, and trespassed into funerals that are reasonably presumed to be sacrosanct.
Defending teh Phelps is a good way to make friends with those of us who were and are soldiers.
Freepmail deleted unread.
If you have something to say, say it in forum.
I can’t understand how any ‘Conservative’ would thing the Constitution was written to protect them from other citizens.
I guess ignorance is bliss.
thing = think
Ah yes, gubbiment wil save them.
Works so well, just look at NY state.
*snicker*
Yes, apparently it is.
“Ah yes, gubbiment wil save them.
Works so well, just look at NY state.”
I know..
I live here.. sigh....
You too?
Been stuck in this twilight zone state since 1988.
Yep, and that's why others would have no grounds to sue a Freep event.
Been here for 58 years.
Except for the 5 years spent in California.
Just as bad , if not worse.
Yowch.
2CavTrooper wrote: “It’s because of the emotional duress inflicted upon the family for one.”
I understand the speech creates emotional duress. This concerns me. What if I say, “homosexuality is a sin” or “unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell?” It concerns me because a homosexual could then sue me for damages claiming emotional duress.
I suppose there could be a standard here, like community standards. For example, maybe the court bases it on whether the speech is offensive to a typical member of the community. This was a very big issue in the 70s BTW concerning obscenity laws.
“Secondly the funeral was more than likely a private affair and the inbreds “invaded” the family’s privacy.”
As I stated before, I understand laws preventing protests within so many yards/miles of private affairs so long as they are applied equally to all protests. From what I know, Fred Phelps and his church follow these restrictions and limit their protests outside of the state designated funeral areas.
“phelps and his klan of inbreds have no business “protesting” at these funerals because these soldiers are not public officials.”
A soldier is an employee of the federal government. I know it’s legal to protest public officials as well as businesses, so long as you don’t slander or libel them (say untruths that damage their reputation/business).
Are you saying it’s illegal to stand on a public street in front of a neighbor’s house with a sign protesting them? For example, let’s say my neighbor doesn’t cut his grass. Is it illegal for me to walk in the street (not on his property) with a sign saying, “Cut your grass!”
BTW, thank you very much for discussing this politely.
“If this is true, that someone can sue me simply for saying something that causes them emotional distress, then I don’t really have free speech any more.”
Yes you do. You have the right to say anything that comes to you.
But, others have just as much of a right to sue the hell out of you for what you say, if it is slanderous or libelous.
They can even punch you in the mouth. They have that right.
You then may call the cops and charge them with assault, as that is also your right.
Dear Victory Gal,
It is my opinion their “Church” is a false flag operation..
Consider the target of their protests.
The Military and Servicemen/Women
Especially hated by homosexual activists.
Christians and Christian Churches
Especially hated by homosexual activists.
When I watched the Phillips antics something just did not ring true.. Something did however began to look familiar.
Then I thought..”Tom Metzger” he ostensibly was this big “White supremacist”. The only thing, he never did anything productive for the cause he supposedly supported. He was however closely covered by the MSM.
Metzger got sued and lost like the Phelps Church. Yet he continued his operations, playing his game.
How did he afford it?
The reports I read had it that he had support coming from money orders/cash? he received in the mail from supporters.
Then the light went on...
The Phelps are ineffective, caricatures and stereotypes. The Main Stream Press provides consistent coverage. Just like they did with Metzger... Perfect
I think it quite likely the Phelps will continue to get support/”money orders in the mail” as long as they can damage the conservative cause in the slightest.
Where will the money come from?
I wonder lol.
W
The judge’s October 2006 Memorandum Opinion denying the Phelps’s dismissal motion is very interesting. He lays out the full case and the grounds for its being filed by the Snyder family. Suggest everyone read it.
http://www.mdd.uscourts.gov/Opinions152/Opinions/Snyder1030.pdf
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