Posted on 11/24/2007 5:16:09 AM PST by Salena Zito
... & pardon these 2 Saturday, November 24, 2007
The degrading, draconian and disgraceful incarceration of former Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean indicates President George W. Bush, the self-anointed compassionate conservative, is capable of stone-cold stupidity. By doing their duty along the near-lawless border with Mexico, Messrs. Ramos and Compean have become tragic symbols of this nation's gross incompetence regarding enforcement of immigration law.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
You can say "Mexican" - it's not a racist word. I'm not sure Columba Bush has even been anywhere near Spain. ;)
Maybe you could try to read more carefully.
I said: “a report through relatives got back to officials”.
I said nothing about how it got back to officials. I presume that anybody in this thread has at least a basic knowledge of the facts, and would be aware of precisely how the information made it to the officials.
I don’t know how you translated “through relatives got back to”, to “via family to officials”, but I hope this post will help you understand better.
As to your baseless accusation against another border patrol agent, it seems all to common among those who protest that they are on the side of the “border patrol agents” to attack ANY border patrol agent that stands in the way of their tale of innocence for the two convicted felons.
The Border will be protected, but not by those who violate the rules of law.
Since you indicate that you have no idea about his injuries, but are simply assuming that they couldn’t be that bad, I’ll educate you a bit. Here are some random quotes from various stories, mostly from WND, or from reports about the testimony from the trial:
“The records indicate bullet fragments were found in Aldrete-Davila’s pelvis but not removed. The path of the bullet is clearly described as entering in the left side of the left buttocks, traversing the groin area, and lodging in the right thigh. “
“The records also indicate reconstructive surgery was performed on Aldrete-Davila the same day at the army hospital. Damage to the urethra required a catheter to be inserted. Aldrete-Davila was placed under anesthetics for the operation and was heavily sedated for pain. “
“187-188 – Aldrete-Davila was at Beaumont AMC to evaluate the genitourinary system and to retrieve a bullet lodged in his right thigh. Aldrete-Davila had already received medical treatment in Juarez, or in Mexico, where they had inserted a suprapubic catheter to drain urine through the abdominal wall. They did not use a traditional Foley catheter, a drainage tube inserted in the penis, in males, and then into the urethra and the bladder. Miller normally would try to insert a Foley catheter following this type of wound, but he doesn’t know what was done in Mexico.”
“194-195 – Miller identified GOV EXH 93 as images from an x-ray film. The first image was of the contrast in Aldrete-Davila’s bladder. The second image showed the contrast injected in the urethra via a retrograde urethragram. No contrast filled the bladder in this test. In the third image, contrast was put in through the suprapubic tube and filled the bladder. Miller used the tube inserted in Mexico.
196 – The x-rays show there is no communication between the urethra and the bladder neck.
196-198 – Miller identified GOV EXH 94 as showing the same x-ray film images as in GOV EXH 93, but this time they had injected more contrast (dye) to better outline the miscommunication between the urethra and the bladder neck. There are foreign bodies on the x-rays that appear to be bullet fragments, and the miscommunication is in the same area as the potential bullet fragments. The images show the fragments from several angles. The images show 4 potential bullet fragments in that location.
198-199 – In order to urinate, you have to be connected from the bladder to the urethra and penis but Aldrete-Davila had a “disconnection” because it was no longer intact. The patient can’t urinate and has back pressure from the kidneys because the bladder can’t empty. That obstruction could cause renal failure and is a life-threatening problem. There is also a possibility of infection and, rarely, of bladder rupture.
“203-204 – Miller indicated he can’t tell what damage the bullet fragments caused and whether Aldrete-Davila will be able to regain sphincter control after reconstruction surgery. It normally takes 1-2 months after surgery to know for sure, but there is a high likelihood that Aldrete-Davila will have problems with incontinence (lack of control of urination).
204-205 – There are other procedures that can be done if Aldrete-Davila is incontinent. These procedures include implantation of an artificial urinary sphincter. These must be replaced every 8-10 years, so a 24-year-old person can expect several surgeries.
205-206 – Miller cannot do the reconstruction surgery. It will require a few surgeons who are trained in reconstruction surgery. Miller referred Aldrete-Davila to Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, the University of San Francisco, and Duke University – but the person that does this is no longer there
In summary, the shooting left Davila unable to pee. He needed a catheter to drain, and surgery to fix the life-threatening problem. This was a serious operation requiring medical experts, and he now uses a bladder bag. He would require more surgery to attempt to regaing bladder control, and may never do so, and also requires reconstructive surgery that involves another specialist.
So it is clear from the testimony of the actual DOCTORS involved (who apparently know more about the injuries than you do), that his medical treatment is both serious and expensive.
I hope this will serve to disabuse you of the notion that his injuries were minor or inexpensive.
I’m not asking you to feel sorry for the guy — he’s a drug smuggler. I’m not saying the extent of his injury has anything to do with the prosecution, or the convictions. There’s no real evidence of that.
I only brought up the injuries as it regards the medical expenses, something we regularly cover when the injuries are inflicted by law enforcement, whether the infliction was deemed legal or illegal (in this case, it was found illegal).
Our Soldiers: Bush addresses "an enthusiastic military crowd"
Business Leaders: "We're all pretty thrilled about this, the opportunity to host the president,"
But you know who says people are sick of Bush? Obama: U.S. Sick of Bush
Nice company you are keeping.
My point isn't that people are happy with what Bush has done, but that people enjoy getting a chance to MEET with him, are not repulised personally by the thought, and still can separate their position on issues from their personal feelings about a fellow human being who needs an d deserves our support and prayers, not our anger and hostility.
It generally is a bad idea to make politics personal. There ARE exceptions - such as Hillary and Ted Kennedy - who are PERSONALLY flawed and defective human beings, and people like Roanld Reagan who was generally a decent moral human being, as well a patriot and Great American.
I know a lot of people like Bush on a personal level. On a personal level I would probably like him also.
But we didn’t elect a friend. We elected a man who presented himself as a strong conservative leader. In some respects he fulfilled that promise, but in too many he did not.
His recent gambit regarding “Global Warming”, is just the latest indicator in a long series of his philosphical disconnects with his constituency.
The thing that most disturbs me about Bush is that he is NOT a conservative, has political views in contradiction to those of most Republicans and frequency most Americans, yet he has tarred conservatives and Republicans in general with the brush of his flawed views on many subjects.
There is no doubt in my mind that his views towards illegal invaders seriously impacted the midterms in an adverse manner.
Heheh, and where are you getting your information?
Please don't expect me to feel sorry for him because there is a chance he might wet himself from time to time. That was a risk that he chose to take.
At least we agree there. Once Bush is gone, we can hope that the rule of law will return to the border.
As I told you in previous post which maybe you had trouble reading, the information I posted was from WND, and from a summary of the actual doctor’s court testimony.
At least now you admit that his injuries would be expensive, which if you bother to remember was the original point which you disagreed with. So maybe we are making a little progress.
Now if you could just watch a football game (there’s one on in just a little bit on NBC), and watch a guy running down the field who is trying to avoid something like a tackle (kind of like trying not to get shot).
Notice that while they run toward the end zone, they turn from side to side, and thus expose their left and right sides to those behind them.
Now, and this may be a stretch for you, imagine you are watching a horror movie where the girl is running away, but keeps looking back to see if the bad guy is catching up. Now, if you weren’t watching her breasts, and instead were watching her behind, remember how her legs turned sideways when she looked back to see what was happening?
Maybe now you will understand how a person running away could get shot such that a bullet would pass from the back side of their left to the front side of their right.
One more thing, and then I’ll let you go. Imagine you are right-handed and holding a gun in your hand. Now, start running. OK, now that you are running, imagine pointing the gun backwards while you are running. Did you cross your body with your hand, putting the gun by your ear? If so, take two points away for risking deafness.
If instead you are like a normal person you stretched your arm out on the right side backwards, twisting your body in that direction so that you can stare down your arm to aim.
Now, which of your hips is closer to those chasing you? Your right. So if you were shot, the bullet would pass through the right side to the left side.
Except in our case, the bullet went from left to right.
All of which is meaningless, as nobody mentioned the perp having a gun until a month after the shooting. Which makes the two BP agents either liars, or the stupidest BP agents around (stupid for shooting a perp and not immediately telling their supervisor he had a gun, which was the only way they could get away with shooting him if they got caught).
Of course, they probably didn’t expect to get caught. I mean, the guy was a drug smuggler, and who would know that his family would be aquanted with the family of a BP agent, and that the guy would have life-threatening injuries from the shooting which required extensive surgery?
Noce try, but President Bush has never been found guilty of illegally shooting someone.
But since you seem intent on slandering innocent people to try to make a point, why not include the President?
IN Bush’s defense, in BOTH elections he clearly stated that he wanted comprehensive immigration reform that would include a path to citizenship for those currently in the county illegally.
I remember in 2004 hearing people calling into talk shows saying they couldn’t vote for Bush because of his position on illegal immigrants.
So whatever else you thought he was promising that he didn’t deliver, his push for immigration reform was one of his signature issues in the campaign, and we can’t complain that he wasn’t living up to his promises on that one.
This case is one reason I’m not willing to send $$ into Republican party at this time. Unbelievable that something hasn’t been done to free these two men where there is unanimous opinion that at the very least the sentences are excessive.
“Has anyone asked those running on the GOP ticket if they would pardon the two if elected president?”
I don’t know if the specific question has been asked, but Duncan Hunter has said he would pardon both agents.
“I’m sorry, but you are apparently ignorant of this aspect of the case. You should take some time to educate yourself before commenting further on his injuries.”
One injury to his backside and he still got away, apparently without limping or being slowed down at all. That is not the definition of serious.
“Unfortunately, the two BP agents on the scene were unable to aprehend the single unarmed man,”
There is no evidence that he was unarmed. He got away before anyone could tell. Ramos saw him point something silver at him (Ramos), which is what caused Ramos to fire.
Again I will ask, if Davila was injured so badly, why was he able to get away without being slowed down, without anyone noticing any limp and without any blood on the ground? Or do you think the pain and bleeding somehow started after he got away?
Here is evidence he was unarmed:
1) Nobody reported a gun until they were arrested.
2) No shots were fired
3) No gun was found at the scene
4) No record of a gun purchase was presented
5) Neither BP agent would testify that he had a gun, only that they thought they saw one.
Two police officers were sure they saw a gun, and shot Dialo to death in New York. It was his wallet. An LEO saying he thought he saw a gun is meaningless in determining if there actually was a gun.
So you are incorrect to say there is no evidence he was unarmed. On the contrary, there is no physical evidence that he was armed.
On the other hand, we know he was shot at more than 10 times. So if he had a gun, he showed pretty good restraint not actually shooting back.
Testimony is that he limped away, and was slowed down. He was seen being helped into a car on the other side of the border.
You can make up any definition you want. The doctor that treated him said the injuries were serious, life-threatening, and required extensive surgery to correct, and might not ever be fully corrected.
I’m sorry, but you are apparently ignorant of this aspect of the case. You should take some time to educate yourself before commenting further on his injuries.
*********************************
It also needs to be noted that it has never been shown that he was shot by Campean and Ramos ,, he continued to run strongly after turning back on the agents in what could be called a firing pose... the wounds he had were severe as the bullet traveled ... my guess is that it was a “.38 super” round from whoever owned the 700#+ of marijuana that he lost in the desert and not a round from BP weaponry.
“If Congress were really behind these two, they would retaliate against the Administration and the courts by reducing the penalty for a border control officer shooting, even killing an illegal immigrant entering the US down to a misdemeanor.”
But the fact that Congress and POTUS are avoiding this issue of pardoning the two BP agents means that both sides are scared witless and have no idea what to do...Both parties need the Hispanic Vote and neither wants to rock the boat..POTUS needs to glue the cojones back on, grant pardons to the BP Agents and tell the Reps to get a working bill together to straighten out the illegal alien mess..It Just might gain votes for the Reps next November..
Cowgirl has given you the facts, backed up with links, over and over...yet, here you are again.
Others should be warned that you are pro amnesty!
Hope you had a nice Thnaksgiving :)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.