Paul in Carson City: Foreign policy key to repairing nation [powerful special interests in charge]

LVN News ^ | November 21, 2007 | Geoff Dornan

[SJackson]

Texas Congressman Ron Paul told a full house at the Carson Nugget on Tuesday he believes Americans are finally seeing the nation needs to repair its foreign policy and begin restoring Constitutional liberties.

He spoke before some 250 Republicans, independents and even a few Democrats ranging from high school- and college-age students to senior citizens who interrupted him numerous times with applause.

"It's foreign policy where we've gone astray," he said.

But, he said, that happened because the people running the country "lost respect for the rule of law and the constitution."

"They just do whatever they want. But people are starting to wake up."

He said the U.S. foreign policy is "interventionism," which has vastly increased the country's enemies in the world, cost the nation hundreds of billions of dollars and badly weakened the economy.

"I would end the war. I would bring our troops home - not just from the Middle East. I would bring them home from Japan, and Korea and Europe as well."

He said the nation needs to follow the advice of the founding fathers: "Mind our own business and get out of all those places."

Paul, a 10-term congressman, said doing that would save hundreds of millions of American dollars and help the nation get back on its economic feet.

The problem is, he said, "powerful special interests interested in protecting the military-industrial complex are in charge."

He repeated his long-time positions that the Federal Reserve should be disbanded and the nation returned to a gold standard for its currency. He said he would abolish the income tax and, if asked what would replace it, "I tell them freedom."

He said with a much smaller government, user fees and other revenues would support the needs without an income tax.

He said it's time for the American people to take back their government and reclaim the liberties guaranteed them by the Constitution. And he said the growing interest in his campaign is evidence they are ready to do just that because, he said, the Constitution wasn't written to restrain people as the current government seems to believe.

"The Constitution was written to restrain government."

He said his goal is to greatly reduce the size of the federal government and put people back in charge of their own lives.

He admitted many people would make bad choices, but said in medical matters, personal finance, lifestyle and other areas, that's their right and the government should get out of their business.

"Freedom means we can make bad choices," he said.

[SJackson]

A pretty straightforward exposition of Pauls opinions. Bring the troops home and, after abolishing the income tax without a replacement, no government at all. From fellow Libertarians, he's no Republican.

==========================

Libertarians Against Ron Paul

James Joyner | Wednesday, November 21, 2007

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/libertarians_against_ron_paul/

Libertarian bloggers from across the political spectrum have come out against Ron Paul.

Right-libertarian lawprof Ilya Somin believes that “Ron Paul deserves credit for his strong commitment to limited government on many issues, including taxes, regulation, federal spending, and federalism-based limits on federal government power.” Yet, he feels unable to support Paul, even as a protest candidate, because “There are also a number of major nonlibertarian elements to Paul’s issue positions, some of which are extremely disturbing.”

As the Club for Growth describes here, Ron Paul has opposed virtually all free trade agreements. Few ideas are more fundamental to libertarianism than free trade. As the Club has documented, Paul also has opposed school voucher programs.

[…]

Perhaps worst of all, Paul has bought into the conservative nativist line on immigration. He not only favors a massive crackdown on illegal immigration but even seems to endorse the view that immigration should be “reduced, not expanded” whether legal or not. To my mind, the freedom to choose where you live and the right to move to a freer and more prosperous society are among the most important of all libertarian principles. From a libertarian perspective, our relative openness to immigration is one of the most admirable aspects of America.

[…]

Lastly, like David Bernstein, I am troubled by Paul’s refusal to repudiate the Stormfront neo-Nazis, racists, 9/11 “Truthers,” and other assorted wackos who have endorsed him. Paul is not responsible for the views of these people, and I do not believe that he personally agrees with them. However, his apparent unwillingness to distance himself from them suggests that he is insensitive to the despicable nature of their views, and the significant damage that association with them could do not only to his campaign, but to libertarian causes more generally.

Neolibertarian Dale Franks has a much more detailed criticism of Paul’s statement on racism .

Now, we can certainly have a discussion about whether government’s proper role is to ban private discrimination, but I think we can all agree that, at minimum, government itself cannot be allowed to discriminate on the base of race. I think Equality Under the Law is supposed to be the ideal.

In any event, this statement of Mr. Paul’s is certainly true in part, e.g. that the government should not be picking winners and losers in the marketplace, nor should it be distributing pelf to favored groups. But the idea that the government played any significant part in the racial practices of early America is simply ludicrous. Indeed, before FDR, most Americans had a fairly tangential relationship to the Federal government. Indeed, it was the federal government’s generally hands-off attitudes towards racial matters that led slavery to fester, and after that Jim Crow.

Left-libertarian Ron Chusid is dismissive of the idea that Ron Paul is a libertarian at all: “Confusing Paul’s social conservativism with libertarianism reinforces the view that libertarians are just Republicans who have tried marijuana.”

Sometimes when diverse groups support a candidate it is a sign of broad appeal, however when both libertarians and neo-Nazis claim Paul as their preferred candidate at least one of these groups must be badly mistaken. The tactics used by many Paul supporters who habitually spam blogs which say anything negative about him further compounds the problem. The comments by Paul’s supporters far too often are characterized by total lack of respect for opposing viewpoints, racism, and belief in conspiracy theories. Any disagreement with Paul, and anything short of one hundred percent approval of his actions, is treated as a sign of either idiocy or evil motives by his supporters.

I’ve recently half-jokingly suggested that it might be in the best interests of libertarians if a publication such as Reason were to distance themselves from Paul. I’m finding an increasing number of libertarians who have expressed similar views, or least frustrations with aspects of Paul’s campaign. Liberty Papers has frequently noted such concerns and and summarizes them in a post today. Freedom Democrats expresses concern with Paul’s “association with the cultural right.”

Now, I find the guilt-by-association business troubling. It’s not surprising that white supremacists, who have been targeted by the federal government for half a century, would gravitate toward the candidate with the least intrusive vision of federal power. That he’s also a closed borders guy is an additional bonus.

Candidates shouldn’t be tarred with the views of those who profess support for them. Further, I’m not sure they have any obligation to denounce said groups. That’s probably especially true for candidates whose whole rationale for running is that people’s private lives are none of the government’s business.

I must agree with Somin — and my OTB colleague Alex Knapp — that the concept of a closed borders, trade protectionist libertarian is paradoxical. Free trade is a founding principle of libertarian thought, going back to Adam Smith, if not earlier.

That Somin, Chusid, and Franks — whose political views are wildly divergent on many issues — all consider themselves “libertarian,” though, says quite a bit about the movement. While most of us think of libertarianism as the only ideologically coherent political view with strong support in the American system, there’s obviously plenty of room for disagreement. Presumably, considering he was once the Libertarian Party nominee for president, there’s room for Ron Paul.

 

[coffee260]

When Ron Paul talks about “special interests” what he means is the Zionist entity, Israel. And that, my friends, is thinly veiled antisemitism. As in we invaded Iraq because Israel made us.

[SJackson]

When Ron Paul talks about “special interests” what he means is the Zionist entity, Israel. And that, my friends, is thinly veiled antisemitism. As in we invaded Iraq because Israel made us.

I figured he meant the warmonger neocons who hijacked the GOP and the country, but who know, it's hard to keep up with the conspiracy nonsense.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

But...but I thought libertarians were all wackos and kooks anyway?

But they're suddenly credible when they're slamming Paul, right?

If Hillary Clinton called Paul a kook, you'd guys would be singing her praises as well.

[DugwayDuke]

“If Hillary Clinton called Paul a kook, you’d guys would be singing her praises as well.”

I would have to compliment her on having told the truth for the first time in her life.

[MplsSteve]

When Ron Paul refuses to repudiate endorsements from neo-Nazis, 9/11 Truthers, etc, he starts to sound a lot like Henry A Wallace in 1948.

Wallace, though not a Communist himself, refused to repudiate Communist-oriented groups that endorsed and/or visibly worked for his campaign for President.

His refusal to repudiate extremists tarnished his campaign as it will also do to Ron Paul’s campaign.

[GOP_1900AD]

Foreign policy gone astray. I agree. Too PC, too nice. We should have liquidated all Nazis, Communists, Islamonazis, etc, decades ago. It really sucks that Truman fired MacArthur. It sucks that Patton did not roll to Moscow. Sucks that we didn’t use nukes after 9/11. Now I’m on a roll. Bring back the great white fleet. Bring back the draft. Seal the borders. Try the traitors, we are in a fight for our lives and Western Civilization is in the balance. That means, a few liberaltarians may end up swinging in the breeze.

[SJackson]

But...but I thought libertarians were all wackos and kooks anyway? But they're suddenly credible when they're slamming Paul, right?

I've never said libertarians were all wackos and kooks.

Do you ever tell the truth, ever.

You're a fine representative of your candidate.

[MplsSteve]

EEE was also a Katherine Harris supporter in the ‘06 elections.

The Kool-Aid drinking type of supporter.

[SJackson]

Of course Wallace was a Progressive, a useless third party, and I believe had some moonbat connections, UFOs and stuff.

Unfortunately Paul is running as a Republican, so the GOP can be tarnished as well.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I've never said libertarians were all wackos and kooks.

Try learning to read, or get a brain transplant.

You post an article from assorted libertarians who opposes Paul as if it's the gospel. Normally you wouldn't give these folks the time of day.

Anything to push your vile agenda, eh? How many more dumpsters are you going to dive in today?

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

When Ron Paul refuses to repudiate endorsements from neo-Nazis, 9/11 Truthers, etc, he starts to sound a lot like Henry A Wallace in 1948.

His campaign manager, Jesse Benton, already said white supremacists are wasting their money on Paul.

Paul receives thousands of donations. Even if he screened them all for potential racists, you'd still loathe him anyway. The funny thing is, is that the only people pushing this guilt-by-association crap are various Paul haters throughout the Internet. Even the MSM and people like Goldberg already conceded that this is a non-story.

Just like Robert De Niro from the "Untouchables" - "YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G!"

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

He has some consistently inconsistent inconsistencies!

[SJackson]

Try learning to read, or get a brain transplant...You post an article from assorted libertarians who opposes Paul as if it's the gospel. Normally you wouldn't give these folks the time of day....Anything to push your vile agenda, eh? How many more dumpsters are you going to dive in today?

Awww, poor baby EEE, feelings hurt. Instead of doing the Ron Paul whine, post the links to my many statements that Libertarians are wackos and kooks.

Tell you what, if they latch onto the moonbat and hate community support Paul has, the LP will be more marginalized than they already are.

[rineaux]

Worth reading the link to Libertarians against Ron Paul. The comments are a better read.

For the most part, his libertarian distractors don’t like him because he is more of a republican than a libertarian. LOL. Also the stance on being against RP for wanting secure borders is nonsense. I guess that fella will be voting for McCain, Huckabee, Rudy or Romney or anyone else who don’t want borders at all.

We always have the jackasprins who support a particular candidate that we do not like. Duke and Black are the main two getting the attention. Consider who they supported in the past and , if/when RP loses the primaries, these two nitwits will support another candidate. Happens every few years. Lets see how those react when the two nitwits support their candidate for President. Not a peep.

Black has profited of the exposure of his 500.00 donation. He knows how to manipulate the media. Look at his rallies during the recount in Florida in 2000.

Worth checking out the link and reading the comments. Always entertaining.

[MplsSteve]

Yeah, actually we got a lot.

Every campaign attracts money from people they’d rather not accept.

That’s not the point here.

The point is that there is a strong Flat Earth, Trilateral Commission, Black Helicopters (IOW, 100% nutters) element active with and/or supporting Ron Paul.

The fact that Paul’s campaign manager says that racists need not contribute is irrelevent.

It boils down to this...does Ron Paul repudiate that line of thinking?

I think we all know the answer is NO.

[KDD]

Tell you what, if they latch onto the moonbat and hate community support Paul has, the LP will be more marginalized than they already are.

[SJackson]

Just like Robert De Niro from the "Untouchables" - "YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G!"

Amazing, the flourishes of paulies never fails to amaze.

To minimize charges against Paul, you compare the Ron Paul campaign to Robert De Niro in The Untouchables

De Niro played Al Capone. Capone only wished they had NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G on him.

[SJackson]

Has KDD figured out if he can personally condemn the likes of Willis Carto, David Duke, Don Black, Stormfront, et al yet.

I know it's tough for the Paul campaign, is it a stumbling block for you too. I've answered your questions, and asked you several times.

Do you think the Ron Paul campaign bears similarities to Al Capone? I don't, but it came up, maybe you can find a way to answer that question.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Instead of doing the Ron Paul whine, post the links to my many statements that Libertarians are wackos and kooks.

Your inability to comprehend is staggering. I never stated you called libertarians "kooks" or "wackos," in a sarcastic sense according to popular beliefs, libertarians are kooks and wackos, except of course, when they denigrate Paul and suddenly they have all the newsworthiness of Brit Hume.

Tell you what, if they latch onto the moonbat and hate community support Paul has, the LP will be more marginalized than they already are.

I really don't give a feces about the LP as I'm not a card-carrying member. But as I told you a thousand times, if you can produce a shred of evidence that Paul himself or his official campaign is in bed with these moonbats, I'll discontinue supporting Paul. So far you're batting 0 - 1,000. Lambeau Field here has a huge waste receptacle, perhaps you can find a racist Paul newsletter or something.